UMD Libertarians

link?
ill be using my $500 to stimulate car-toys and put my system in

Cheer up - the bank rescue plan might reach $2 trillion

yes

Let’s ignore real problems for the sake of potential ones.

.
Wheres the list of who voted? I want to see what piece of shit fake republicans voted for this bloated garbage

Yes, this is so much worse than all the money they’ve been pissing away for 8 years.

Increased taxes

fight em over there so we don hafta fight em over here!!!!
What’s so bad about this bill?

Won’t it help jump-start the economy?

.

lol

Nice "answer"

post the story in the thread. ot doesn’t like to click

more like push it’s crippled ass, down a flight of stairs.

but 3 trillion in tax cuts and wars is so much more productive than 1 trillion on infrastructure, education, and medicare!

:facepalm:

yes, this should help. all the OT economists don’t believe so, but they also haven’t studied past high school econ classes.

Yes, that really did a lot - and handing out cash to banks - that worked too.
does this mean they’re going to pass out checks again?
This will help but there’s no such thing as "jump starting" the economy.

This bill yes, but spending could help, if the money was spent in the right areas, Road construction, bridge construction, revamps on public school, colleges ect. Stuff that would provide jobs for the working class people giving money to spend and borrow for jobs like this. However, all the shit they have to add to bills to get them to pass so everyone can get "theirs" is what will cause this to fail. Im not worried about myself as much as im worried about my father who is wanting to retire but money just keeps getting sucked away from him.

If it’s so bad, why would Obama push for it anyway? And why would the Senate pass it?

Surely they must have SOME good reasons why they think this would work and help the economy.

I’m just curious, I don’t know much about this bill. So, forgive my ignorance.
it’s great how they call it "stimulus" but like 70% of people polled said they would save or pay off debt with this money

So they can delay the total economic disaster and still blame republicans for getting us into this mess.

do some reading good sir. this money is a fucking joke

How is hyperinflation a "potential" problem.

I dont even see inflation as "potential"…we’re spending/printing more money than we have. That instantly = inflation.
yay nyc gets more/better/new subways and stations thanks you guys in rest of country that helped pay for it
awesome. this is like a reward for anyone with credit card debt.
Only time will tell if this is the right move - it’s better than doing nothing about the problem, amirite?
i honestly hope i dont win the lottery any time soon. i’d be so happy to win a few million, and then panic to try and get it invested in euros and shit

cant save if you cant pay your debt.

Paying debt = paying companies back and they make money.

stimulating companies = stimulating economy
I’ll take the $xxx of bucks they are going to send me
This bill was crafted, revised, and passed by professional economists and the US government. They’re doing the best they can and I’m pretty sure 99% of them have a better grasp on economics than 100% of you.

not rly

Yes, because Obama’s administration really had power in ‘08.

What is the alternative? Hold our dicks and wait for the crisis to finish?

Sounds like what we did during the Great Depression…

no. but printing money isn’t the answer

and it’s being used so well mind you…. those financial companies are making every dollar count

That’s what I always thought too.

These people know what they’re doing, they wouldn’t pass a bill that’s gonna fuck over the economy even worse. How would that be in their interests?
the actual congressional research service document basically says that spending will help the economy more than tax cuts, and removing the capital gains tax wont do anything. it also says that stimulous bills in the past have taken too long to be enacted so they didnt help that much.

its a shame that Obama is being so nice to the republicans by giving them more tax cuts, and removing spending on education. especially when the republicans thank him by being dicks and playing political games to delay the process so much.

this is OT. No one is smarter than us

it’s fucking true. just because you passed a macroecon class doesn’t make your opinion is worth a shit.

Ok, so please tell us… What is the solution then?
Wait, Mugatu trolls for whatever party holds the white house?

thank you

holy shit you were serious!??!!

times 10,000

What else option do we have? The Federal Reserve already exhausted its traditional options and we are essentially stuck in a liquidity trap because the interest rate is already near 0%. The next logical step is to try to stimulate the economy through fiscal policy.

I think the fact that you’re serious is even more appalling

see here is where political debates and economical debates derail. everyone always wants a better solution when someone disagrees with the current one

when was the last time someone cut your wool? you seem like your life is lived one line at a time
The reason why the banks didn’t start lending after the first bailout is because they still had too many risky assets on their balance sheets - they used the funds to shore up their own balance sheet. The first bailout plan underestimated how much money is actually necessary to unfreeze the ‘credit crunch.’
they should pass out government giftcards that can be used at any store but not a bank so people will have to spend it and not save it or pay off bills

You and your kids social security gone bye bye

this constant bullshit is nothing more than trying to hold up the house with toothpicks as a foundation. keep throwing more toothpicks underneath to try and hold it up

it’s going to crash. companies need to fail. you can’t keep bailing out shitty companies. they’re just going to fucking fail again
will i get another $600 check in the mail?

I WANT MY FUCKING OBAMA PRIZE MONEY@

wow. we have a believer here folks. after we print 60 trillion for these banks, just MAYBE it will help!

@ the let them fail crew

What do you do for a living that doesn’t require the US economy to be functioning?

it won’t be spent the way it should.

what would this do exactly?

And you know this how?

sorry i know that harsh reality is a bad bad thing

let’s ignore it!

ok, thanks for demonstrating you have no idea what you’re talking about

put money towards Chinese made products

give me a gov’t card so i can buy a foreign car

to get it to pass there was a bunch of "i need to get me, mine." loaded in it.

thanks for demonstrating you’re a fucking idiot and think printing endless money that doesn’t exist is the answer

this isn’t monopoly sir douchealot

thats why giving states money directly so they can start projects rather than give the money to taxpayers in the form of tax cuts is better for stimulous.

Seriously, what do you do for a living that will allow you to function if the US banking system as a whole shuts down? I’m curious, so I can get into that field. Because right now me and every other working American I know out there rely on the banking system to survive.
oh look the stranger

Date of Birth:April 7, 1988Age:20why am i not surprised he follows the liberal sheep line

hit me back in 5 years when you are actually paying things on your own and are a positive influence in society. right now you are worthless

Exactly…..
sooo…

if this passes am i going to get another $600 stimulus/Obama Prize?

what does this have to do with anything? i’m not immune. we would all suffer terribly until it got better

is this something u really need?

I’m curious as to your background and experience that has given you the insight into the US Economy and government required to make the statements that you’re making.

No…

but free money 4tw

Fucking werd. I was supposed to close this week, but pushed it back to next week for that credit.

blind liberal huh?

not at what it costs in the long run. printing everyone free checks is terrible

The entire problem was crafted, revised, and passed by professional economists and the US govt. So now you trust them to fix it? They’re either inept, corrupt, or both.

that couldn’t be real.
so you guys are all cool with the bullshit projects they attach to this fucking fail train?

what like 250 million to Hollywood producers? seriously? yeah that will help us all

Answer the question. What experience do you have with US/Global economics, credit markets, government structure, etc?

I don’t think you understand how much trillions of dollars of assets are tangled in the balance sheets of Citi, BoA, JP Morgan, MS, etc…

Letting one of these banks WILL cause the collapse of the entire financial system, with very real reprocussions on the real economy. These banks aren’t like Circuit City or even the auto industry, where letting a few companies fail here and there will lead to relatively isolated reprocussions on the rest of the economy at large.

don’t worry the dumbass is 20yrs old. 20yr olds barely remember to put on a condom before they fuck, let alone this subject

That was pulled out of the bill.

why not tell me why you support them first?

It doesn’t matter who’s administration did what when. They’re all the same, bought and paid for by the same corporations/interests. Will the average Joe ever figure this out?

still other bullshit in there i’m sure
Wait, answer Saks’ question… are we getting another 600 dollar check?

oh so let’s give them a 2nd and 3rd chance right? makes sense. keep dishing out more money while they continue to do stupid shit in the public eye cuz they know nothing will be done to them

There is.

A lot of the provisions of the stimulus plan are retarded because senators and representatives include their pet projects in there. That’s pretty much unavoidable with our system of government however.

history repeats itself

i guess not…

I’m gonna have to agree with this.

It’s never just as simple as saying "let that single bank fail", there’s much more to it and it would have very dire consequences.

well everyone accepts it. not enough people bitch about it, so they continue to fucking do it

Then this thread means nothing to me.

i really have no faith in any of this anymore. after all, we fucking put a guy in charge of the treasury that failed to pay taxes and hired illegals.

that’s awesome

Are you Bill O’Reilly? You get asked a question that’s going to make you look like a fool and you try to deflect by asking a question right back?

I think it would be terribly irresponsible to instead of TRYING to salvage the economy, millions of peoples pensions, retirement funds, etc.. to just let them fail because it’s going to require spending and has the potential to contribute to a speed up of inflation.

Recovery.org

If they don’t spend it properly you’ll know it.

so keep writing checks huh? oh 100b didn’t help? well fuck here’s another 100

more like fail and aids

I’m not a liberal by any means. I’m actually pretty fiscally conservative and I do pay for things on my own. Personally attacking me does not discredit anything I’ve said. The economy is fucking bad and even though this stimulus bill is not the best it could be, we need something and we need it soon. Unfortunately there’s a lot of politics that get in the way of economic actions, but that’s the system we have.

i hope i still have some change left, after they take my moneys.

If it’s targeted properly and the correct amount of oversight is in place then the money can make a difference. This bill has some very good targeted spending in it that will create jobs.

BUT NOW THAT I’VE ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION. TELL ME WHAT EXPERIENCE AND BACKGROUND YOU HAVE IN ECONOMICS, CREDIT, AND GOVERNMENT
i can’t wait till the taxes fucking SKYROCKET when they eventually realize we have to get this money from somewhere

Like still purchasing gulf stream jets after bailout money, etc, etc.. Surree give them more of tax payer money, their not corrupt or anything. what a fucking kick in the nuts that was. The same will happen with this bullshit stim plan also.

So you think we should just let huge corporations, financial, auto, whatever, fail? Seems counterproductive to me…

Taxes were already going to skyrocket after we DOUBLED THE FUCKING DEBT OVER THE LAST 8 YEARS WITH TAX CUTS

so i guess you support socialism then? what about the auto industry? support that fucking joke?

everyone in this country was screaming let them file bankruptcy and get rid of that fail fucking union… but they still get a bail out and continue to put out overpriced vehicles

but obama is promising tax cuts

there is so much "i need to get me, mine." in it… if it was totally stripped, it would not have passed.

exactly. they continue to party like rock stars and laughing the entire way

i don’t blame them. the gov’t is so fucking stupid. they are working the system

ANSWER THE QUESTION CLAIR. WHAT EXPERIENCE AND BACKGROUND DO YOU HAVE IN ECONOMICS, CREDIT AND GOVERNMENT THAT ALLOWS YOU TO MAKE AN EDUCATED POST ABOUT THE SUBJECT MATTER AT HAND

the domestic car market needs to fucking die and come back to life. the current system is a fucking joke. that union needs to die

it’s funny this is all u can say bitch

agreed, but I dont think letting them go under is the best way to go about that.
did u guys see the multiple specials on the auto workers? how they work like 4hr days and get paid 8? yet they all cry and refuse to take pay cuts
838 billion, we’re getting close to that 100trillion!

I’ve answered your questions. You refuse to answer mine, I can only guess because you don’t have anything to back up your idiotic policy positions.

they need to claim bankruptcy so they can get rid of the union

Exactly.

A big portion of the stimulus package is Obama basically buying votes in the House and Senate by allowing Reps tack on their pet projects. That’s how Congress works in DC, been like that for a long time…

so everytime you debate a topic with someone, you want to make sure they went to school for the topic? really?

Auto workers are fucked, that is an industry that should be bankrupt and restructured. The financial system is a completely different animal however.

Ofail is as corrupt as they come. He’s no different than any other fuck stick.

labor unions need to be shit canned altogether

You mean all this money to be give to the non-productive has to first be stolen away from one who is productive? WOW I never thought about that part!

i fucking hate socialism, but stipulations of this plan should include wiping out the current CEOs

they all fucking fail

He is not corrupt (from what I can see), but he is also not the messiah that a lot of people think he is. There is no reason to think that he is not doing his best.

i know right? i thought we could hand out money and save on taxes! /typical american

maybe not corrupt, but his past has shown he’s an unethical fuck

Anything that’s worth a damn will be bought up by someone else. If it isn’t worth anything, then yes, it should fail. Why should taxpayers be left holding the bill?

yeah seriously. they all work in fuckhole areas where 35k/yr is ballin

yet they won’t give up $50/hr

I don’t give a fuck if you went to school and studied the subject in college. But if you want to post about the economy and credit markets and government you had better read a fucking book about it, worked in the industry, or done something other than watched something on TV or listened to the radio about it.

I think it’s safe to say that all of us have no professional experience or background in this subject, and we’re just talking out of our asses like most other OTers?

Obama is a socialist.

you think this plan is a good idea. therefore, your credibility is gone

thanks for playing
Too many people in here have too much faith in the Government’s decisions. As long as all of the people pissing on you say it nicely, you sheep will believe anything is good for you.

well put

Who the fuck are you?
everyone who supports the bailouts should read Free to choose

it’s like that final huge squirt of diarrhea before you feel relief.

The unemployment rate is already forecasted to be in the double digits within in the year, I don’t think perpetuating that by letting these huge employers go under is a good idea. Do I have a solution? Hell no… Does that industry need to be completely revamped? Hell yes.
i love how this bill targets a lot of poor fucks too

middle class takes it in the ass again

this.

It’s not black and white like that.

The government is basically doing everything that it did not do during the Great Depression. Why is that a bad idea? The increase in money supply and fiscal stimulus will probably lead to higher than normal rates of inflation in the future, but you gotta face problems one at a time. This is a SERIOUS fucking problem we are having right now. There is a reason why the VAST majority of economists and experts support both the stimulus package and the bank bailout plans.

The auto industry needs to restructure to be sustainably competitive with the likes of Honda, Toyota, etc.

Let them go under.

in for USSR in america

politicians have a very clouded image on this and a very biased opinion.

until we can remove underlying reasons for doing shit, then we can’t truly get anything done. they continue to add stupid shit for themselves and friends.

they will never 100% attack the problem as long as our current fail system is in place
OT is full of ballers who live in $2-3mil homes, have secured foreign investments along with various Swiss and Cayman Island bank accounts. Why should any of you worry about a bailout?

All of what you’re saying are general impressions of the situation - what do YOU think that the government should do?

<——
I love when OT thinks they know more about stimulus plans, bailouts, and running the government than the people who actually do the job.

OMG SHEEEEEEP BAHHHHHHBAHHHHH

I’m from the government and I’m here to help.

they should send us all checks for 10 million dollars

then we’ll spend money like we just don’t care
I think Henrietta Hughes will never be heard from again.

She’s in for a disappointment

oh hey there sheepy longstockings.

I know the infrastructre allocation of the bill is destined to fail
i’m glad people in this history of this world have always gone by what their leaders have said and followed it blindly without question

oh wait

Just someone who deals with the commercial credit markets on a daily basis

by Gary North

The Federal Reserve System faces a dilemma of its own creation: the doubling of the monetary base.

The only thing that is keeping this from creating mass inflation is the decision of commercial bankers to deposit the bulk of this increase with the Federal Reserve. The banks are not lending out this money. Neither is the FED. This money does not legally belong to the FED.

Continued at link below:

Go read that, look up any terms,etc you don’t understand, and then come back.

If you are so educated on how this country should solve these problems, why are you not in a position to make a difference?

Thats right. You don’t know shit.

You have absolutely NO AUTHORITY to make a statement like that since you have NO UNDERSTANDING of the situation.

I love how you and so many others assume that all those CEOs getting the money out of this "bailout" have your best interests in mind.

Let them fail, file bankruptcy and try to start over without the Government handing them billions of dollars.

are you seriously saying you think politicians are all geniuses with shit like this? really?
I want someone with the balls to ask this one question to Obama:

HOW THE HELL ARE YOU GOING TO PAY FOR THIS

that is all
l33tpilot knows enough to condemn, yet not enough to help apparently

of course not. you’re a fucking stock broker of commercial loan banker… so you know more of course

Politicians aren’t, but professional economists generally understand how the world financial system works better than we do.

sorry there is a middle ground. you can think something is bad without offering solutions

FUCK, I wonder if they thought about this…

You’re right, the conservative republican caucus is full of fucking morons

yes and they have a huge hand in this

he wont, we will.

YES WE CAN

…move to Canada

Are you suggesting that rich people are the only ones that are smart enough to make decisions on the economy?

he is serving $125/lb steaks in the whitehouse while accusing CEOs of wasteful spending. ask him how much he cares

umm yes I would know more. It’s just amazing that you think you have a leg to stand on in an arguement when you have absolutely no understanding of the economy other than you don’t like government spending.

Of course they are geniuses, did you know our country is in dire need of new atv trails?

then you’re of so much help, aren’t you?

what’s your title at bank of america again?

They are generally quite supportive of a large fiscal stimulus package, yes.

so if i don’t have an alternative, i should get in line right?

Fixed.

link to economists cheering for this?
so if I got $500 from bush’s stimulus which was only $152 billion, does that mean i’ll get $2756 next year ?

so you’re dating a new girl? if she’s under 107.5 lbs she needs a fucking cheeseburger

if she’s over 107.5 she’s a fat piece of shit

yes. be sure to drive through the nearest ghetto and throw it out the window

I don’t work for Bank of America.

.

Obviously they can’t account for the specific measures of Obama’s stimulus package, but they DO support a general large-measure fiscal stimulus package.

you know it! But you’d better not be saving that shit.

Go spend it on a TV or something. There’s a good little consumer…
I hope this does good things but everyone seems so doubtful
amusing how laymen are all pissing over themselves over today’s stimulus vote, when its largely irrelevant compared to geitner’s fuck up today.

keep your heads in the sand, morans
Oh well, no use bitching about this. Time to collect my moneys!!!!

cliffs?

Because no one has any idea how this is all going to pan out. Except OT of course.

cliffs: "fuck it, i’m throwing 1-2 trillion downfield"

just watch the news in the next 6 months and await the fail
in other words, the guy in charge of TARP today basically said he doesnt have a specific plan of action, but he’s willing to throw 1 trillion at the problem.

but no, keep fretting over the bullshit stimulus that everyone knows is going to get passed in some form soon. focus on the obvious and ignore what’s important, OT

Classic example of the "signaling" phenomenon hard at work.

let the treasury secretary use it

nope, I just hoped that someone with a such a strong grasp on the situation would maybe, just maybe have a solution or two. perhaps you even had fresh or novel idea, something I hadnt heard from all the republicans on capital hill screaming their lungs out.

but I guess I gave you a little too much credit. have fun on your soapbox!

don’t need to be a bomb builder to know not to light the fuse

link?

edit: found one

well you obviously added a lot to this thread

great comments chief

which makes us equals to our representatives

America needs a reboot….

Or maybe a reformat…
MEMO
FROM: Reality
TO: The One
SUBJ: Owning it.
All Hail the Obamessiah!!! All Hail!!!
You sign this check… you bought the pig in the poke. There is no blaming the devil Bush and the evil Republicans anymore.
You asked for it… You Got it…
let’s nuke the country and let the economy rebuild itself
Fuck.

This + bank bailout part 2 potential plus part 1 plus what we already had….

Fuck how many trillion in the hole are we gonna be?

How much is the dollar going to be worth?

no link necessary. the long awaited "new" TARP plan was supposed to be announced today. information was leaked last week by treasury that gave ppl the impression they were finally gonna nip this shit in the bud. including setting up a bad bank, the gvmt buying up these assets finally and doing an oxy clean on some of these big bank balance sheets.

geitner makes the announcement today and we find out there is no real, thought out plan. he basically says they dont know what they are doing, but that they are going to throw at least another trillion at the problem.

in other words, any confidence in lolbama being decisive and get a grip on this has been destroyed this morning.

dow nosedove about 300 pts, we’re reapproaching the nov. lows.

yay america.

would probably be demand-pull inflation, which would be the opposite of what you have right now, and pretty much what this bill is trying to get going IMO

I don’t see how this is any different than the stimulus. They’re both throwing money blindly at a problem, and neither you or I have the ability to stop them.
Boot up in command prompt.

deltree *.* Y

boot up on boot up diskette and copy over contents.

boot up on Windows 3.1 (not 3.11….not there yet) and install.

begin

i have the ability to profit from said shenanigans. and i actually understand the nuanced distinction between such policies. that’s all the matters to me at this point.

if the money circulates domestically, shouldn’t it just impact the price levels and inflation and not the exchange rate? and with national demand as low as its going, i dont think inflation would be a huge worry. but just my opinion here

to back this up, inflation last november and december was 1% and 0.07% respectively, compared to 4.3% at the start of the year

we’re facing a deflation problem in the short-run more so than a inflation problem. however, in the long-run this stimulus could very well lead to an inflationary gap.
As soon as the banks are forced to start lending, the fractional reserve banking process takes over, and the money supply will double. Hello mass inflation!

wouldnt the inflation be caused by excessive demand, and hence an exact reversal of the current situation?

,

OT knows what’s up

well then

Fuck me, brb, buying commodities!!

Negative, there is also cost-push inflation due to supply shocks (like the oil prices going up high as fuck).
LOL @ OT economists.

Economy isn’t an exact science - it can only be accurately applied to large scale phenomenon - it does absolutely nothing on any specific event or series of events in a market.
so does this get me 15k back if I buy a house and a 4.0% loan?

yes, and $500

and has anyone actually found the wording that states whether we pay back that $15k or not?

LoL @ $500

I’ll take it but its the house stuff that I am curious about.

They kept the 4.0% government subsidized loans for first time home buyers!??!?!!??!

We ought to try the one approach that hasn’t been tried yet….The free market

wat? just for first time buyers? Fuck I was hoping to refi for 4%.

wasnt there cost push inflation in the 70s with an oil crisis or something?
The biggest threat facing the American economy right now is rarely even discussed. It is the massive buildup of paper bank reserves in the last quarter of 2008. This was Bush’s doing. He ordered the Fed to print like mad. Fortunately for us, the banks are still holding on to these reserves. When they start lending again, the result could be hyperinflation of Confederate dollar proportions.

Hence the priority of the Obama administration should be to first do no evil, and second to find some means for withdrawing those reserves from the banking system before they wash through the economic structure and destroy the dollar. There is still time. He must act. Yes, that will lead to bank failures. That’s good. It will lead to business failures. That’s good and essential too.
i came in here looking for that gif of obama in the rap video throwing money out.

please help me
Senators Susan Collins, Olympia Snowe, and Arlen Specter.

ugh

LOL

Show me one single time when economics was able to make a very accurate prediction - it’s a fucking social science, not a real science.

Stop trying to act as though economists know exactly what will happen.
The best way to stimulate the ailing economy is to cut taxes. Let people decide how to spend their money. Washington’s plans for new bridges and day care centers may win votes, but won’t revive the economy. Japan tried this and it failed. The US needs productive industrial investments

Oh, I know they don’t.

Sorry then - I have a bad habit of jumping into thread discussions.
The idea that politicians, bureaucrats, and bankers could "save" the economy is laughable. These are people, after all, who live exclusively at our expense. That is, these are people whose entire livelihoods are dependent upon taking money away from productive people and spending it on themselves and their favorite wasteful projects.
Only the most naive and unlearned among us could possibly fall for the idea that a bunch of self-serving politicians, bureaucrats and bankers are going to "save" us from problems they have caused.

I’m counting on it.
the inflationary effects can only appear if the newly printed money makes it into the hands of people to spend
everyone does know that it could be up to 2-3 years before you see an actual effect from this right?

Sweet, no sense in giving it a though today then. After all, tomorrow never comes right?

True.
This is not nearly enough. This is just like what was happening back in the 1930’s, where Hoover and Roosevelt were not putting enough into the economy to replace the lose in aggregate demand.

not how i meant it…im for it, and its important to me and my hopes for selling/buying homes this year that it gets done now.

just from reading this thread I get the impression that people think they are getting a check in the mail or a new job next week…
this will be a disaster, and it will be Obama’s. He will be a one term president, and the only black president in my lifetime.
i hope one of these government officials commits suicide

no. Obama was going to save us, not end us… rememeber?

BY THE WAY….

Don’t blame me, I voted for McSame

you’re off by 96 years bro

oh, the other side of the same coin? k
where is the all aboard the failboat jpg when you need it?

Yeah the dude is an idiot.
GOOD NEWS

We’re almost done circling, and about ready to take our trip down the drain.
Fuck Obama.. All you fucking Obama sackriders are going to be responsible for the downfall of the USA. Thanks!

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