UMD Libertarians

What plans will our glorious leader have for the motherland?
Why wait till he speaks before tossing out the inevitable string of insults from the ole LIBRUL SLANDERING MACHINE?

Go to they have a link to a live feed to the right under Video.

seriously. I wonder if the OT conservatives were this bad when clinton was in office.
I love how wonderfully he speaks to his two best friends, the teleprompters.
lulz …. he’s calling out the fringe libertarian extremists.
saving or creating jobs…. an archetypal Obamism.

By that standard, even if we lose the 500 million jobs Pelosi is predicting, he can claim victory by claiming that without him we would have lost 503 million jobs.
As bad as Bush was, Obama will be worse. He’s a complete idiot on the economy. Yes, Bush was too.
lol ot conservatives

single most concentrated demographic of complete idiocy i’ve ever seen
they keep saying 2 things over and over.

1. this is the worst thing since the great depression.
a) the 70 were way worse

2. 3 million people have lost their job

a) how many have people have gotten jobs? what’s the NET!

too many details, i can’t read them all.

LOL< you’ve never talked to an obama crowd then

All you need to know is that Obama is going to use the power of government to solve every problem in your life.

oh, so you have none then.
Good answer. Point to Obama for handling the trick question.

He recognized that increasing [aggregate] consumer spending is not necessarily equivalent to decreasing the personal savings rate

You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

both extremes are retarded.
Thank God for FOX News! No one else would have asked about Biden’s 30% of fail prediction!
On OT, neo-keynesianism is a fringe school of economics that no one practices

It will continue to work to an extent as long as we are one of the largest single trade entities in the world.
Pragmatism …. rigidity on either side is not helpful.

edit: bah… LUKKIEEEEEE!

but my favorite answer was to how he would change his future policy with republicans… maybe create the stimulus package WITHOUT tax cuts, let the repubs suggest tax cuts and take credit for the idea

Revisionist agenda of the internet free market fundamentalists is hilarious.

I was like ….

too bad it’s not a full transcript

w/o a teleprompter he is nearly as bad as Bush.
Gotta feel good about Obama when the best that the conservatives can come up with is some weak bullshit about "uhh"

I guess they’ll reload the strained OUTRAGE after Limbaugh’s show.

hence it is incomplete

that was the most prominent noise for the entire hour

this is why i love OT. i get tomorrows talking points today

ziNG!!!

I totally love how no one is making a big deal out of "saving or creating" jobs. Its just trying to set it up so when his plan fucks up he can say "it would have been 10 times worse but we thankfully saved these jobs"

omg he’s totally not fit um to be um the um um president um.

Nope. Clinton at least was somewhat centrist. Obama has demonstrated his far left socialist/totalitarian vision within just 3 weeks.
No pork? ooook.
90% private sector jobs?? right.

This is the only way the neocons can stay together mentally. You should see some of the comments on conservative sites. They’re fucking falling apart.
As expected: the usual suspects meeting their usual expectations.

In for copy/pastes
This forum in general is slipping down the slope of lunacy. The venom being spewed against a man who has yet to be on the job 3 weeks is just sad. I knew the Bush sack riders would not be happy campers but in regards to how low and how fast they have sunk, their utter lack of faith and confidence in that man is pathetic. It is clear that they have no love for his philosophy, but it is almost like they are rooting against this country and every man woman and child, (themselves included if you really think about it), just to ensure that he does fail.

No, being that he actually makes coherent sentences and uses words that actually exist.

No, I don’t want this country to fail. I just think it’s laughable that Obama talks about giving people money or letting people keep the money they’ve earned. Yet, instead of talking about lowering taxes across all income levels and really reducing the federal budget, he’s trying to ram this horrible bill through Congress and push this country further into debt (and many economists agree, further into the recession). His understanding of economics boils down to one word: government

I have zero problems in my life that I look to Washington to solve outside of what they rape me every two weeks on taxes.
I’ll be able to withstand the double digit inflation that he will cause from this. So yea, I can sit back and laugh at the obamatard sack riders. If you’re not in such a position ask yourself this. What do you think will happen with inflation from printing so much new money? You really don’t think China is going to loan us 2-4 trillion dollars do you?

I don’t want the U.S. to fail, I’ll just enjoy watching him and his administration fail.

….which he says while using a computer on the internet (developed by decades of public funding), and after taking advantage of interstates, clean air, clean water, an ozone without growing holes, insured bank accounts, etc.

Yeah… we give a fuck about your narrow-mindedness.

What economists? Any real economists and not the fringe lunatics you people often cite? Now, I’m not a huge fan of the bill in it’s current form but we need to spend money to stimulate the economy. Tax cuts are a weak answer and the only idea that conservative nut jobs are ever willing to support. You guys sit there shouting down the guy for no reason.

"He’s uses lots of umms, he must be retarded." Pro tip: the use of pauses such as umm, hmmm, etc are used in EVERY SINGLE LANGUAGE BY EVERY SINGLE PERSON when they’re thinking about what they want to say. You don’t just spit out words in a perfect flow unless you’ve already got an already memorized answer you’re spitting out. The use of umm and hmm and what not means that the man is THINKING ABOUT HIS RESPONSE. Shocking I know, having to think about what you want to say. I’m sure none of you have ever had to do that before.

"Oh man, he hit is head on the door of the chopper getting in, he must be retarded and a terrible president." Maybe the man is 6′2" and he has to duck going through places and just forgot? Nah, I’m sure talking about bumping your head into the helicopter is relevent to a policy discussion. Unfortunately, even on policy discussions you guys don’t actually talk about policy. You want the government to not exist. There is never a middle ground. It’s "No government or go fuck yourself"

And then you guys bitch about the guy admitting to making mistakes? I, for one, welcome some fucking accountability in our government. George Bush passed the fucking buck for 8 years and at the end could not think of a single mistake he made over the course of his presidency. The guy was so delusional about the state of his presidency it was absurd. Then we have Obama, who has already stated he’s not perfect and has admitted to some mistakes and you guys fucking shit all over him for that. New flash morons, everyone makes mistakes. The real men admit they’ve made a mistake and move on.

You do realize that a failure by Obama will lead to an abject failure for all of us in general? Even the likes of you will not be able to avoid the ramifications of that outcome. But hey! At least you will be right as you lick your wounds caused by the economic failure that you seem so hell bent on seeing coming to fruition.

Lue’s Philosophy:

Better to be right and financially fucked in the ass rather than to be wrong and economically prosper.

The whole viewpoint of the right is cut off your nose to spite your face.

Holy wall of text batman. Dude, calm down. Seriously.

As for economists, Schiff, Paul, the CBO and others have described this stimulus plan as a disaster. It WILL put us further in a recession. Within 6 month - 12 months, Obama will be calling for additional spending as this plan will fail. The best way to put money in people’s pocket is to reduce individual taxes while reducing corporate taxes at the same time because we all pay those taxes on behalf of corporations through the cost of goods sold. This must be coupled with a significant reduction in the federal budget to restore faith in our economy and our government’s ability to cover the debts its taking on wrongly, I may add. Bush cut taxes and continued spending. Obama is, once again, following Bush’s piss poor example. In the end, Obama is more like Bush than different. He’s the same puppet Bush was. Our economy will not correct until tax rates are favorable for individuals and businesses to invest and the federal government stops spending money that it doesn’t have. We cannot spend our way out of this problem. You would not run your household finances this way, why do we allow the government to do so?

And just what, pray tell, are they going to invest? Best wishes? Broken office furniture? Roll-over minutes?

Nice speech, wrong crisis, wrong decade. Put Reagan back in the can please.

no, you narrow minded little man. I feel that Hussein’s agenda for America and where he wants to take it is wrong. Thus I don’t want that, so, it would be logical that I would want his ideas to fail, thus America would succeed.

Not only did he promise a free lunch, but that the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS THE ONLY ENTITY THAT CAN PROVIDE IT.

That’s right, serfs. Not only do you need "something" but the federal government is your god, your lord, your master. Those aren’t chains, brother, they’re liberation bracelets! You’re being LIBERATED from evil capitalism and free market economics!

That won’t do anything to restore faith as our economy hemorrhages jobs and the credit markets continue to stagnate. No one is willing to step up and risk money in the market and the government sitting around and doing nothing except cutting corporate taxes isn’t going to change that. "favorable" tax policy isn’t going to change a damn thing if everyone is terrified that as soon as they invest money it’s going to disappear into a void. Junk bonds have yields of 20%. I agree that we cannot spend our way out of the problem, the spending is to put a floor on the economy and stop the bottom from falling out. Our effective corporate tax rate is already one of the lowest in the world. Of course, the right wing refuse to cite anything more than the statutory tax rate because they know that the US is practically a tax haven for corporations.

I’m not a fan of Reagan and what I described has nothing to do with his policies. Nice try.

You’re retarded. The government is the only entity at the moment that can help to correct the problems with the market. There isn’t any other entity large enough to help restore confidence in the market. Show me a private sector company (or group) who are willing to drop down almost a trillion dollars to get the ball rolling again? I’d prefer to not see the dow at 3000 with 35% unemployment and the global economy in shambles. It has nothing to do with moving away from capitalism and free market economics, it has to do with stabilizing a freefall.
Also, I’d like to point out that there’s a difference between cutting taxes and increased spending as an overall economic approach to an economy, and using it as a way to stave off disaster. If the economy is stabilizing and starting to recover and Obama is still looking to spend money and cut taxes, I’ll be the first one shouting that it’s a terrible idea.

@ the US being a tax haven for corporations. Exactly who do you think pays for corporate taxes?

Yes, it’s become more difficult to get credit. Lowering taxes across all income brackets encourages people to save, invest, and not depend on credit to finance their daily purchases. Of course, this means lowering taxes much more than Bush did with his tax cuts in 2001 and much more than Obama would be willing to entertain now. The government reducing its spending, balancing the budget, and actually paying off the debts it has accumulated restores overall faith in our currency in the eyes of investors - foreign and domestic - and plays a significant role in stabilizing our economy.

What does giving $100 million to the national endowment for the arts do?

Jesus Fucking Christ. What a narrow mined, selfish, right wing lunatic you are.

Actually it does. History > you!

Of course he’s still going to do that. Obama has already stated that he’s willing to run trillion dollar plus deficits.

Tax reductions coupled with reduced government budget will induce investment that trickles down to the average person?

YEAH I DONT SEE THE REAGANOMICS

Much like what Bush 2.0 started.

Well, we’re going to have a trillion + dollar deficit this year but I can’t see the future. If the time comes that the economy is in recovery and he’s still looking at massive spending programs, I’ll be on the side saying enough is enough. That’s the problem with you guys (and a lot of the left) is you’re all ideologues. Pragmatism is a word that will never be used to describe you. Ideologues are one of the biggest problems for this country and the world.

First off, the national debt grew significantly under Reagan. I’m talking about reducing the national debt to restore faith in our currency. Reagan made little to no effort to pay down the national debt and have a balanced budget.

Second, I’m not talking about trickle down. I’m talking about cutting all income tax brackets by at least 10% and eliminating corporate taxes altogether because we implicitly pay those - not the corporations.

Did you not see how Obama squirmed yesterday during the town hall meeting when residents asked how the money would get to them? He gave them some bullshit answer about setting up a web site to review where the money is going and comment on what’s working and what’s not. That’s hilarious. Why not give the money (or better yet, reduce the amount the government takes from people to begin with) to directly stimulate the economy?

No kidding. Who is praising Bush in this thread?

I know that it is not pragmatic to run my household like the government attempts to run our economy. Our government should be creating the conditions for companies and individuals to be successful in our economy through low tax rates and spending restraint. Instead, it has determined that it has the duty to spend to fill the gap left by consumers and to pick winners and losers in our supposed free market.

We have the lowest effective tax rate of any of the OECD countries. You clearly don’t understand the usage of credit. I’m not talking about credit cards and things like that, I’m talking about interbank lending which is how our financial system operates. The current economic system is designed around the use of credit financing and to suggest we use it less is to suggest a complete change in the economic system of the world.

That is how I know you know nothing of the financial markets. Throughout the crisis our currency has been improving rather dramatically compared to everything but the Yen. The government being fiscally conservative in a time of crisis will do nothing to restore confidence in investors. NOTHING. Oh good, the government is being more responsible about it’s finances, and we just lost another 6 million jobs and another 3 trillion dollars have just evaporated from the capital markets. That doesn’t induce confidence. Now is not the time for ultra conservative fiscal policy, it just isn’t.

Ron Paul and Peter Schiff…
Yeah. People who follow a pseudo-science are "economists."

Also … lulz at the bullshit claim of "disaster" from the CBO.

By the end of 2010, the CBO analysis estimates, 1.3 to 3.9 million jobs would be created. The unemployment rate would be 0.7 to 2.1 percentage points lower than the 8.7 percent forecasted. And GDP would increase from 1.2 to 3.6 percentage points over a baseline forecast.

You are really not even worth responding to. You are literally the TekDragon of Obama supporters. Go ahead, keep cherry picking.

Deflecting the facts with that tired, irrelevant, and oh-so-witty line again.

Everyone here has already called out the idiocy in this thread, so it’s irrelevant whether you dodge my posts or not, champ.

"Ron Paul is an economist"

Our corporate taxes are already extremely low and cutting taxes further isn’t going to stimulate anything. It doesn’t matter if you are taxed at 0%, you won’t be able to get a small business loan, a short term loan for payroll, you just can’t get a loan regardless of how amazing your credit is. GE is having extreme difficulty raising capital and getting loans and they’re, arguably, one of the most reliable and stable companies in the world. When GE can’t even get loans, banks are just not lending and cutting taxes is not going to make the banks lend. Even with a rudimentary grasp of monetary policy you would have known this to be true. The existence and proper operation of our credit markets is the foundation of the global economy. Unless you want to go back to trading chickens and goats, we’re going to need to work on fixing the credit markets and putting a bottom under the economy or it’s all over. A ZIRP hasn’t even stimulated lending so the chance that cutting taxes will stimulate it is lower than our current interest rates.

I wasn’t ware that paul was considered an economist. I was wondering if I could be pointed to his doctoral thesis? I’d love to read it.

Yee God! What a selfish fuck you are. If the worst case scenario comes to pass, I hope that the money you have squirreled away will taste good.

I have Lue on ignore but it just goes to show you how little he knows. Not like that wasn’t clear when he argued that revenue and profit were the same thing but the fact that he’s "worrying" about inflation when we’ve been suffering from deflation. I, for one, would welcome a little inflation. The simple fact of the matter is if the Obama administration fails, the U.S. is finished. This isn’t a "oh, the next president will fix it up" scenario. We’re down to our last bullet, there are no more do overs. It’s now or never.

Tax breaks mean nothing if unemployed, just FYI.

What is it with you and taxes? Taxes did not create debt, did not lead to the financialization this nation is undergoing.
These people act like the government can just stop spending any money altogether. You talk about cutting taxes and reducing the national debt like the government can somehow slash taxes and still manage to reduce the debt because they just won’t spend any money on anything. No military spending, no social security, no medicare, no payment to government employees. Hell, lets abolish our military, that costs a lot of money. Every time you cut taxes you have to make huge reductions in government spending. If we’re basically getting rid of taxes entirely, that means the government isn’t going to be taking in any money which means it won’t spend any money which means it won’t exist. Personally, I’m against anarchy but that’s just me.

uhh… what?

This I will agree with. Its now of never time. IMO I think the Dems will fall on their ass though.

What you are seeing is the end of the US as we know it. Civil unrest will start happening in a couple years and then the government will step in and start really removing rights from people - IE guns - speech ect ect…

Then America will be no more.

Look on the bright side. You guys can keep making fun of conservatives though. Give you something to do till we are all in the poor house and living under the government’s thumb.

"Quoting the stupid things I say is cherry-picking. How dare you ignore the meaningless for flaws. God it’s like sending back a drink because the glass has a huge crack in it."

I don’t know whether they will or they won’t, but hopefully Obama will put Pelosi and Reid in their place and tell them to shut the fuck up. I hope that they succeed with flying colors because if they don’t it’s over. I think it’d be nice if the Republicans (and some of the Democrats) would stop being so partisan and actually represent the American people.

Now you know how I feel.

It’s really rather simple: the nations’ economy is collapsing in on itself because it became entirely too dependent upon debt. Debt. Debt, debt, debt.

You keep talking about taxes. Not because it applies to the situation, not because of some deep thought about the current crisis, but because its a mantra that has been repeated over and over and over. Like a broken clock, some people will say the same thing over and over until they are right . . .

FUCKING DOT

you stimulate demand from the side of the consumer, not through artificial spending.

Did you read my post? I was the one saying that taxes are not the problem. I can’t tell if you’re retarded, sarcastic, or trolling me.

The day politicians actually listen to and represent the people they were voted in to represent is the day pigs fly.

Read more carefully, he was not calling Paul an economist…..

you were just sitting there waiting for an attractive string of words to spin and lambaste someone with

Heh… he might have mistaken your mockery of SlowNegative as being your support for the "cutting taxes is a panacea" bit.

That’s EXACTLY what he was saying.

He was asked "what economists" and his response was "as for economists" before directly listing Ron Paul as one. Hell, even Schiff isn’t studied in economics, per se. (Nor has Schiff been particularly successful in translating his "awesome foresight" into any profits …)

that was them???

Yeah…. that was precisely what I did by calling out his bullshit about the CBO citing a "disaster."

In for Obama’s doctoral thesis… or one from any of those piece of shit lawyers running DC right now.

Yeah, I was just confused. I went back and reread my posts to try and find some sort of ambiguity and couldn’t find any.

I don’t think anyone has claimed that Obama is an economist.
NEWS FLASH! Ron Paul is a gynecologist

BAM! Fingers in the pussy

more like BAM! Speculum in the pussy, amirite?

I’m sorry, I must have been confused by your call for tax breaks. I read that as a call for tax breaks. What did you really mean?

He specifically said that only the federal government can solve the economic crisis. To say such a thing, he must fully understand both government and economy.

Obviously.

Or that is just what his advisors are telling him. I don’t know, it’s a tough call. I can totally see how you say he’s claiming to personally be an economic advisor.

Or …. it could be possible that the private sector is too fucking skittish to do jackshit, leaving the government as the only possible entity willing to help. Moreover, it’s pretty damned obvious that there are plenty of actual economists ADVISING government officials.

None of this does anything to change the fact that RON PAUL IS NOT AN ECONOMIST, and claiming that he is one is retarded.

did you keep reading that article?
I’m pretty sure that we’re just prolonging the inevitable. We’ve been living as a nation outside our means for 30+ years and it’s caught up with us. A time of pain has to come, and whether we want that now or later, and how much pain we want it to be, this current administration has to decide. I’m thinking of burying my head in the sand and I’m keeping the option of going back to the family farm after I’ve graduated; physical commodities will always have value.

Nowhere did the CBO describe a disaster. Nowhere.
wonder what a disaster would do for the Over Lord’s plan? This plan is assuming that all is right with the world. Imagine if he continues to go soft on terrorist and gut the CIA like Slick Willie did. Imagine the diaper heads setting off a nuke in N.Y. Think he’ll just print some more money and make it all better?

Why do people keep conflating personal debt with the national debt and pretend that the solutions to both are the same?

Dave Ramsay said that you need to stop spending and pay off your credit card bills therefore the US government just needs to stop spending money!

Did you ever stop to think that the private sector is skittish because they’re neck deep in debt and realize they need to start pumping out water instead of continuing to piss in the boat? The government solution is to TAKE BY FORCE from people that would make the decision for themselves to borrow, spend even, or save, and run amock with the funds, bailing out their rich banking and corporate lobbyists, creating new entitlements for the serfs and beaurocracies for the taxpayers, and being sure to funnel plenty of dollars to themselves.

I know how to spend my money better than the government. I don’t mind paying taxes for the government to function in its role of serving and protecting, upholding the Constitution and the laws, and creating an environment for the sovereign States to use collective resources for the greater good. What we have now is so far beyond that, there may be no turning back without a complete collapse.

And yet Obama cut taxes lol

Are you confusing me with someone else? I never called for tax breaks…

Yeah, confused you with SlowNegative. In my defense, you quoted him. Sorry about that.

Best post in this thread that no one read.

Okay. I’ve spent like 15 minutes rereading my posts trying to figure out where the ambiguities are and I couldn’t find any. I did quote him that is true. No worries.

(Oh and .. clear your PM box!)

obama’s tax cuts are giving more money to people on welfare that don’t pay taxes to begin with. Hardly what most Americans consider a tax cut.

Obama tax cut == handouts to the freeloaders

Obama economic stimulus == take money from taxpayers and funnel it through new government entities.
So, to all of the Obama sack riders in this thread, how do you think the markets will react when the ’stimulus’ bill is signed into law?

400 pt drop today with the announcement of passing the senate

Left-wing politicians take away your liberty in the name of children and of fighting poverty, while right-wing politicians do it in the name of family values and fighting drugs. Either way, government gets bigger and you become less free. – Harry Browne

The market loves government bro. Of course, the sack riders will be here any second to tell us the market continuing to lose value doesn’t matter. As long as the national endowment for the arts gets their money, we’ll all have food to eat.

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