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That’s the promise of America, the idea that we are responsible for ourselves, but that we also rise or fall as one nation, the fundamental belief that I am my brother’s keeper, I am my sister’s keeper. That’s the promise we need to keep. That’s the change we need right now. |
Does this sound like a contradiction?
I don’t want a government keeper.
It’s not much of a contradiction, but it does involve government as a common steward.
The whole quote is a contradiction. "Responsible for ourselves…..I am my brother’s keeper…."
I bolded the part that scares me.
Yea, I have actual brothers and sisters, I really don’t need a government "big brother" being my keeper.
I think my wife is right: we really need to buy more guns before Nov.
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Yea, I have actual brothers and sisters, I really don’t need a government "big brother" being my keeper.
I think my wife is right: we really need to buy more guns before Nov. |
Cuz Obama really wants to take them all away. He’s going to go door-to-door and relieve you of them.
Isn’t this basicaly the definition of communism?
I mean, I know communists use different words, but aren’t they saying about the same thing?
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Isn’t this basicaly the definition of communism?
I mean, I know communists use different words, but aren’t they saying about the same thing? |
I was thinking more along the lines of socialism.
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Isn’t this basicaly the definition of communism?
I mean, I know communists use different words, but aren’t they saying about the same thing? |
There’s no such thing as gradation. It’s all or nothing.
Or do you know better than that, and you’re just trolling by asking the question?
im sure this really puts the forum’s ayn rand goons up in arms. there’s an entire chapter in atlas shrugged discrediting "my brother’s keeper"!!
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The whole quote is a contradiction. "Responsible for ourselves…..I am my brother’s keeper…."
I bolded the part that scares me. |
Well the trick is in the wording. You hear "responsible for ourselves" and think "that means I’m responsible for me, he’s responsible for him, she’s responsible for her, Dave’s responsible for Dave" etc etc etc. It’s sneaky, but while you’re busy hearing at least part of a message you might agree with - and this is intellectual murder he’s getting away with, I think - he’s saying "ourselves" and meaning it in the most collectivized sense. We are responsible for ourselves… we as a nation are responsible for ourselves as a nation.
The great thing, as I say, is that you hear what sounds good, and the most socialist in the crowd - the people who’d pass for Borg on Star Trek - they hear what they think sounds good too. Of course what they’re hearing is reinforced by the whole "brother’s keeper" thing, and that’s where you’re finding your contradiction obviously.
What a sneaky creature…
Government is just the name we give to the things that we decide to do together.
You’re going to need to amend that to include the use of force on unwilling participants.
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Does this sound like a contradiction?
I don’t want a government keeper. |
Dude…he’s talking about people taking care of EACH OTHER.
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Well the trick is in the wording. You hear "responsible for ourselves" and think "that means I’m responsible for me, he’s responsible for him, she’s responsible for her, Dave’s responsible for Dave" etc etc etc. It’s sneaky, but while you’re busy hearing at least part of a message you might agree with - and this is intellectual murder he’s getting away with, I think - he’s saying "ourselves" and meaning it in the most collectivized sense. We are responsible for ourselves… we as a nation are responsible for ourselves as a nation.
The great thing, as I say, is that you hear what sounds good, and the most socialist in the crowd - the people who’d pass for Borg on Star Trek - they hear what they think sounds good too. Of course what they’re hearing is reinforced by the whole "brother’s keeper" thing, and that’s where you’re finding your contradiction obviously. What a sneaky creature… |
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the idea that we are responsible for ourselves, but that we also rise or fall as one nation |
I think he meant individuals. Why would he follow it with the "but that we also rise and fall as one nation"
This comes strait out of the Bible in that we all should love one another as we love ourselves.
There is a socialist undertone but it also is mainstream Christian Philosophy
It will all depend on the application. If you read Obama’s health care proposal it talks of chronic disease and how all levels of Government are responsible down to the fireman and mayor.
If you got the Dieabeetus they is going to be watching you so as you take care of yourself. Maby a prison/rehablitation camp if you don’t
Dude, dude.
Do you mean "I am my brother’s keeper" means we are to take care of eachother and not that the government will be our keeper?
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Dude, dude.
Do you mean "I am my brother’s keeper" means we are to take care of eachother and not that the government will be our keeper? |
Right.
Yes…a call for Americans to look out for other Americans is awful
The fact of the matter…it’s exponentially more patriotic and absolutely less contradictory then the "to hell with my fellow countrymen" while trying to tell everybody your more patriotic then the other guy.
He’s not talking solely about the government, but rather a broader idea that we should ALL be looking out for each other. Individuals as well as the government.
And he stated quite emphatically that he does NOT want the govt to be making all our choices. His plan is the epitome of "equality of opportunity". Give everyone a chance at education, decent healthcare, etc.
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Yes…a call for Americans to look out for other Americans is awful
The fact of the matter…it’s exponentially more patriotic and absolutely less contradictory then the "to hell with my fellow countrymen" while trying to tell everybody your more patriotic then the other guy. |
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He’s not talking solely about the government, but rather a broader idea that we should ALL be looking out for each other. Individuals as well as the government.
And he stated quite emphatically that he does NOT want the govt to be making all our choices. His plan is the epitome of "equality of opportunity". Give everyone a chance at education, decent healthcare, etc. |
NO…FUCK MY FELLOW COUNTRYMEN…..
NOW LOOK AT HOW BIG MY FLAG LAPEL PIN IS!!!!
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SAN DIEGO, California (CNN) — You knew Barack Obama would deliver a magnificent speech in accepting the Democratic nomination for president. And he did. CNN contributor David Gergen — my graduate school professor and an adviser to four presidents — called the speech a masterpiece. And it was. Most of the speech dealt with economic issues. The last thing Obama wanted to do was channel Lyndon Johnson or some other Great Society, tax-and-spend Democrat. Nor did he want to come across like a laissez-faire, no-tax-but-spend-anyway George W. Bush Republican. That’s a tough needle to thread, and Obama settled on a hybrid of left-right economic theory that sounded like a bundle of contradictions. Obama talked about "America’s promise," the belief that "through hard work and sacrifice, each of us can pursue our individual dreams but still come together as one American family, to ensure that the next generation can pursue their dreams as well." He explained it as "the idea that we are responsible for ourselves, but that we also rise and fall as one nation" and described it as blending "individual responsibility and mutual responsibility." Simply put: You have to do what you can for yourself, but that you also have to do for others. There is the rub: If everyone were to adhere to the first part, there will be no need for the second. Besides, even if we buy the idea that, as Obama said, "I am my brother’s keeper, I am my sister’s keeper," there is still the question of whether government should do the keeping. The same question came to mind during Joe Biden’s speech Wednesday. The Democratic vice presidential nominee also talked about "America’s promise," but he defined it differently. For Biden, it’s about what his working-class parents told him "about how anyone can make it if they try." Now we’re getting somewhere. Then Biden got tangled in his own contradiction. He talked about his dad who, when he fell on hard times, would tell his son: "Champ, when you get knocked down, get up." Then he lamented that he had "never seen a time when Washington has watched so many people get knocked down without doing anything to help them get back up." Wait a minute. Who said anything about government helping folks get back up when they get knocked down? Is that what Papa Biden was talking about? It sounded like he was saying people should get themselves back on their feet. I’m a big fan of getting back up, personal responsibility, educating yourself, making good choices, and getting over the idea that the world owes you a living. I’m also keen on people not playing the victim, not feeling a sense of entitlement, and not fearing competition. And when you’re struggling in a tough economy, you don’t give up or lay blame or ask for a government bailout, you work harder. Those are my principles — but they carry a dose of pragmatism. I can’t remember the last time I saw government do something right. As a 41-year-old, I’m part of a generation that learned not to wait for government to save you because you could be waiting a long, long time. Case in point: On this third anniversary of Hurricane Katrina, there are people in New Orleans who are still waiting for the federal government to rebuild that city. Good luck with that, folks. The waters have long since receded and residents are no longer standing on rooftops holding signs that read: "Help save us!" But they might as well be. The same goes for the Democrats who convened in Denver. This is a party that maintains power by trying to convince people that our country is a dark place, devoid of opportunities, and that the answer is to elect more of them. Now they’re seeking a change in the White House, a change in policy, and a change in national priorities –even if they aren’t ready to change their tune. |
Yeah because it’s completely impossible to reconcile personal responsibility with govt assistance.
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He’s not talking solely about the government, but rather a broader idea that we should ALL be looking out for each other. Individuals as well as the government.
And he stated quite emphatically that he does NOT want the govt to be making all our choices. His plan is the epitome of "equality of opportunity". Give everyone a chance at education, decent healthcare, etc. |
I guess some have interpreted it differently.
so you expect the government to help you have a sense of personal responsibility?
Where is my katrina money!!!
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so you expect the government to help you have a sense of personal responsibility?
Where is my katrina money!!! |
How about limiting the welfare system to what it was meant to do? Give money to Americans who need it, but for a short term until they get back on their feet. I’d support a 6-month cutoff for aid.
Like Clinton said, welfare is a second chance, not a way of life.
Fucking stupid.
Maybe you would would like to write up something better.
I was willing to let that be a matter of a quote taken out of context. If he did indeed mean individuals… sure enough, you’re right, it’s a fairly blatant contradiction.
Yes, finding yourself personally responsible to consider others is so communist.
Charity. That is where it all began. And why not? Is charity really different from communism?
Yea, well I don’t play well with others. So Obama
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Yes, finding yourself personally responsible to consider others is so communist.
Charity. That is where it all began. And why not? Is charity really different from communism? |
Well, I guess if you subtract from Communism the muzzle of the gun that’s nestled up into the back of your skull, insisting that you participate, no… not really.
Charity is an individual choice, not something to be forced on everyone by the government.
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How about limiting the welfare system to what it was meant to do? Give money to Americans who need it, but for a short term until they get back on their feet. I’d support a 6-month cutoff for aid.
Like Clinton said, welfare is a second chance, not a way of life. |
Id support limited welfare.
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How about limiting the welfare system to what it was meant to do? Give money to Americans who need it, but for a short term until they get back on their feet. I’d support a 6-month cutoff for aid.
Like Clinton said, welfare is a second chance, not a way of life. |
But it is a way of life.
The government can barely run itself as it is now, what Obama will do won’t change a thing while it will further a burden on the rest of us that work hard to support those who don’t because we are being forced to be our "brother’s keeper".
What a bunch of absolute horseshit.
I’ll recruit an army of new teachers, and pay them higher salaries and give them more support. And in exchange, I’ll ask for higher standards and more accountability.
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