UMD Libertarians

Obama to End Military’s ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ Policy

WASHINGTON —

/**/

"Don’t ask don’t tell" is codified in U.S. law now, he’ll need an act of Congress to overturn it. I don’t expect it to happen any time soon if at all, hence the simple "yes" answer with no details, no timetables, nothing. Typical Obama.
has your life been as negative as your posts since nov 4th douggiej?

If the last 8 years of ‘rule by executive order’ have taught us nothing else, it has taught us that "codified law" means jack shit as far as the President is concerned.
I think I saw a headline today that Obama was going to have to wait to overturn the policy, or something to that effect

good to see he’s concentrating on the serious issues though, and not wasting time with trivial things like the economy or foreign policy
this is ridiculous. openly gays would be distracting and make other soldiers uncomfortable.. i also think being openly straight is distracting as well

eh, I can go either way in this situation.

do you think Hamas has a "don’t ask don’t tell policy"? I’m curious.

We dont have gays in Gaza.

Israel allows openly gay/lez in their military

There are also no gays in Iran.
I’m fine with equal rights but it is NOT a good idea to do this in the military with current military culture

can you elaborate what "military culture" means?
you know that most of the developed countries allow gays to openly serve… except USA.

they’re distracting and people get uncomfortable?

oh NO!!

no shit. I think they are going to have more to worry about when bullets are flying then how good their commander looks in a jock strap.

i’m just stating the obvious. personally i wouldn’t mind having a gay soldier in my company but there are a lot of ignorant fucks out there

The Spartans were one of the best fighting forces ever and they got a lot of hot man ass.

Nothing builds camaraderie like taking a nice thick dick up your ass
Women are in our military, so there goes the "distraction" argument.

Plus I heard that Obama doesn’t plan to do this until his 4th year in office, so this thread is misleading.

Women are not in ground to ground combat. I can tell you 100% I would NOT want most women fighting next to me.

that ignorant homophobes should determine who gets to fight for his country?

two questions

1. are you in the service?

2. why, exactly, would you not want a woman fighting next to you?

the best part is, that that was essentially the theory. Well at least a good chunk of it.
In summation, military intelligence will now employ gay anus sex as a torture technique

they don’t do the same job as males. males act differently around females, less task oriented & not as willing to have a killer mentality. Instead of bending / breaking rules which is necessary when deployed, everything becomes by the book and shit just is backwards.

I know from experience

this is all stereotypical crap.

how can you know from experience what women combat soldiers would be like, seeing as there aren’t any?

There are some women who I would much rather have fighting beside me versus some men. Then again, there are some I would definitely rather not. Gotta treat them as individuals bro, not all women are like that.

sorry bro, the stereotype is true. I was in a infantry security platoon w/ the Marines doing missions, etc… and we hadn’t seen females for a good 6 months or more then all of a sudden we had to pull missions to transport female Marines to different spots in the city to do female-female pat downs. When they came in everyone and everything changed. You just can’t be the same around females. It’s like throwing a few girls on a all-male sterioded out football team. Grown men act like children.

so you hadn’t seen a woman for 6 months and then one day when you did see one everybody changed and that’s evidence that if there were always women around then men would always act differently?

is there any kind of intelligence test to be a marine?

yup you have to get a 30 on the ASVAB… I think you have to write your name and fill in about half of the bubbles for that.

what you’re saying is plausable, but it’s just not reality. Sorry. "straight" men will always act differently when women are around. There’s a huge difference between my company (all male) and the Marine air wing company (+females) across the base. It’s just a fact of life. I’d like to see a 120lb girl try to drag or fireman carry a 200lb man.

All my friends took it to get out of class. I got a 99 and only the navy ever called. Did the marines assume I’d be too smart to join?

sounds like me… I got a 92 and was only about half awake. We made fun of the Marine recruiter because he kept giving us candy, and again only the navy called.

Exactly. I don’t doubt a women’s combat effectiveness but there are certain physical limitations.

On that same note, I wouldn’t want some 140lb skinny guy trying to carry me out either.

those are the important qualifications, performance is important, nothing else.

You’re right, but I am 145lbs but I have no problem carrying a 205lb person. Maybe I shouldn’t have said that about FM’s but what I am concentrating on is the physiological change.

There are a lot of 99 ASVAB Marines. You’d be suprised.

sexist.

set minimum standards and, man or woman, require everyone to meet them. so if a chick can’t carry a 200lb man then she can’t be in combat.

wow, that was tough.

If you have the strength to carry me out, thats fine. But, as a rule of thumb, most 140lb guys I run across aren’t going to be able the lift lil ‘ol 215lb me up on their back and run out of a hot zone.

the navy guy made a good pitch right up until I said "I can’t swim and don’t want to learn so I’m not getting on a boat." He said "not everyone in the navy is on a boat" and I said "you mean I could enlist in the navy and choose to never get on a boat?" He said "does everyone in the air force fly a plane?" I laughed out loud and pointed out not everyone in the navy CAPTAINS a boat, but at some point they’re all ON one.

He never called back.

I just told him I wouldn’t give up smoking crack for the navy. As for being on a boat though you were pretty much right on, and that would fucking suck.

1. nope.

2.Physical and emotional ablities of most women. Mainly the emotional part.
I’ve known many women just as tough or tougher than men.

so you’re too emotional to have a woman near?

I dunno, seeing a woman killed or wounded in combat has a heavier toll on the psyche

holy fuck this is getting retarded

of course there are females capable of being "tough"

hey, look, a 19 year old female combat medic performed meritoriously and saved the lives of her comrades. she was awarded the silver star. good on her. however, the sad reality is that most females are essentially a burden in combat. half of the females i deployed with ended up high tailing their asses back to the states because they got knocked up.
I support the don’t ask don’t tell policy for the safety of the gay people in the military.

I dont think gay men any any less qualified in the field at all.

women on the other hand are less likely to be as strong when needed but I’m sure that situation is not very common

then maybe the guys who can’t take it shouldn’t go to combat.

so

Im just curious about your comabat experience (yes its relative too the thread)
No matter how much the military wants too seperate the sexes like a monastary, you eventually develope an intimacy from close quarters and combat situations…moreso with the opposite sex

Its not taking it, its the human condition in combat

I’m a lover, not a fighter. But I’ve also worked for long periods in close proximity to women and we all did our jobs professionally and without regard for gender.

It seems like people are saying it can’t be done but they’re ignoring the part where it’s never been tried.

Oh it can be done….it happens all the time.

but lets add adverse conditions, and traumatic experiences to this scenario and any hardened combat veteran would have a hard time maintaining professionalism off duty.

i can say alot of the emotion and unprofessional conduct comes from after the day is done when the mind gets too wander than when people are doing their job
dont ask dont tell is good just so we dont have faggots falling in love with another faggot and fucking up their head when they need to make a decision! If they are allowed to be homos straight out in the open its going to cause some problems yo
The gays and women who can’t hack it will be rooted out in BT anyway.

it doesn’t seem to be a problem for almost every other developed country with armies…………………………………….. ……………………………….

Maybe thats why we are so damn good

He has a point…..

The US military is one of the most disciplined in the world even though we have our faults.

cant say the same for other countries Ive worked with

the point he tried to make is our army is better than others because we dont have gays in it(which we do).
if you agree with that point then i dont even know what to say to you because it is ridiculous.
you know, it could NEVER be the fact that we spend most on defense and have the most advanced weapons/jets/etc. its because we dont have open gays

Yeah . . . history disagrees with you.

No, it’s the constant warfare. That probably has something to do with being good at war . . . you know, practice.

That and the largest military budget in the world. It has nothing to do with where soldiers put their penises or mouths or vaginas.

Did you know that, to the best of my knowledge, it’s still illegal to get a blowjob in the military? Yeah, oral sex is against the UCMJ. Lot of good that does . . .

what are you talking about?

nothing in what you said is even close to a reason to not have women in combat.

oh yeah, don’t ask don’t tell is absolutely preventing gay sex in the military

Im talking Discipline….

Being openly Gay is not disciplined from a military standpoint

I never said that i wouldnt want women in combat…..

All the stuff Im stating is what happens in combat when you have Male/females working toghether in a harsh environment…

Frankly it dont bother me the least

Dont ask dont tell left it open for Commanders too discipline those who got caught having gay sex….which is a break of discipline punishable by the UCMJ….not saying it prevents it, just leaves the door open too punish those who violate the policy

so a man and a woman in the service can have sex but not be disciplined, but two people of the same sex can’t?

why is it a break of discipline for one but not the other?

Depends….if they are single and not covered under General Order #1 by all means fuck like Hetero Rabbits….if you are married and have sex with another Women and get caught, you will get hammered for Adultery….if you have have gay sex they will nail you for Sodomy

As I mentioned above….

Also FYI General Order #1 prohibits (but doesnt necessarily stop) Drinking and having ANY Sex while deployed over too the middle east….

the vatican has an army?!!?!!

all that i posted are considered breaches of discipline and can be punished under the UCMJ.

The military might allow open gays….but they wont
allow gay sex

Yes, they’re called the Swiss Guard and they wear cool funky uniforms.

They look pretty gay to me.
call me twisted if you like, but there is one major factor related to women in the military that has nothing to do with them being able to physically/mentally handle combat.

If we end up in a major war and are actually occupying a defeated country, part of the way that the message of defeat gets sent home is by terrorizing the civilian women and/or taking them for gfs/wives, so that the men of the defeated country are emasculated, and so the next generation is also less likely to fight since they are the children of the victorious army. What happens with women in the military, since they offer a sexual outlet? How does this change the conclusions of a major war, if one were to happen in the future?

you have got to be fucking kidding me.

in what war has the US done this?

Except that wouldn’t happen. Look at the PT standards today, not only have the entire program been reduced to Run, Pushups, situps but the standards have been laxed. And then women don’t even have to do the same level as the weakened men standards.

It’s pure bullshit.

Vietnam, obviously. Have you not seen the movie? Remember, she will love you long time.

Long time. You think that shit didn’t fuck with the zipperheads?

Japan after WWII. Huge numbers of women were raped, the Japanese government continued forcing ‘comfort women’ into the sex trade for the benefit of allied soldiers, and many other allied soldiers took Japanese women for gfs/wives.
Someone please remember to bump this thread once the policy is overturned.

Dont hold your breath though…..

Clinton said the same thing

"Mission Accomplished"

Bill Clinton enacted "Don’t Ask Don’t Tell" He signed the bill… he didn’t promise to end it.

Now, a decade later:
1) The military is in desperate need of new troops
2) Several high-ranking generals have gone on record saying that the policy should be repealed
3) Several recent polls indicate that the general public approves of the repeal
4) There is a democratically controlled Senate that is in favor of the repeal

I think there is a strong case to be made for the successful repeal of the policy.

.

wtf, none of that was US military policy and it wasn’t done to emasculate japanese men.

See there’s already gays in the military so what’s the problem?

What’s wrong with the av? A little hair and leather.
It’s your mind that’s taking it to a dirty place.

No the Air Force, Navy and Marines are not only the Army is.

Active or Retired

If so how come Gay marriage isnt gaining traction

They still have to get it through the Joint Chiefs

I beg to differ.

Like I said before, you can try to repeal the gay ban, but changing the UCMJ is not so easy

reasoning?

i don’t need to see chest hair all the time.

Reasoning, we are not hurting for people as alot like to claim….and there is still not very good acceptance in the military for open gays.

i think it will cause more problems than people realize

you have to start somewhere. it’s gotta be like a band-aid. just rip it off and move on. it’s not like there aren’t gays in the military. at least they could have some self-respect.

They do….as long as you are not practicing Gay PDA or get caught having gay sex…then there is no problems.

so what’s the difference, to have them be able to admit it, to you?

It’s about time

Its a breach of discipline, along the same lines as Adultery and it can interfere with the job at hand.

Dunno man. My pre-Law friend served with gals from VMI and he said they were all top notch. I don’t necessarily agree with the VMI supreme court decision (for state’s rights resaons,) however, I don’t see how anything you just said is true.

Admitting the fact they they are gay is a breach of discipline? It’s like adultry?

I’m talking about just being able to say they’re gay.

Admitting that they are gay means that they admit too breaching Articles of the Code of Conduct, and therefore punishable under the UCMJ.

i dont agree with it but thats how its going too play out whether or not Obama follows through

what? I’m not talking about "being gay with fellow soldiers". I’m just talking about being gay, even if they are a virgin.

I’m heterosexual. If I say that I am, that automatically means I’ve slept with fellow women soldiers?

I think you’re missing my point….

Being in the Military is like living with the Ten Commandments….even admitting you are gay may get you serperated out of the military….if not, they (commanders) will find a way to get you kicked out…whether Obama Lifts "Dont ask Dont tell" or not

Shit Ive known people to get kicked out because they made Porno home movies

not if it’s made legal to tell. and illegal to discriminate. You’re missing my point that it’s not been legal to do so, so far. So of course you see it this way. Once it is not illegal to tell, then it will be different.

See heres the sticky of it, there are several questions that rise up

1.) How can it be discriminatory when being gay is not a Race, Sex or Religious issue…its viewed as a personal lifestyle…just like a Bi-Sexual

2.) Being gay is nothing like Being Black or Female…the proof is shaky on whether you were born that way

3.) Behaviors of Gays can still be considered illegal under the UCMJ whether Obama lifts that ban or not, believe it or not those same behaviors can get Heteros in trouble too

4.) Dont expect Gays to get Spousal benefits…but thats another issue

you don’t have to behave gay to be gay. I can be a hetero abstinent or a homo abstinent. people don’t choose to be gay, so it’s very much a "born as-is" type of thing. Just because you’re not able to wear it on your face like a race or sex doesn’t make it not so. What about religion? We can’t discriminate on that, but that’s so much more of a choice than being gay. Religion is actually a completely conscious choice. Gays may choose to pursue that lifestyle or not, but they are what they are.

What you’re saying is the government has no control over the practices of our own military? What year is this?

Sorry dude the fact that they are "just that way" is still out for debate….I could be Bi but still couldnt engage in Homosexual behavior.

Religion is somewhere that nobody wants to go it truly brings out the ugly in people when you diss them and comparing gays to religion does nothing more than piss off the Righteous

A commander always has the right too be stricter on his people than established policies…this includes Wing, Squadron or MAJCOM commanders…unless its integrated into the EEO policies and procedures the claim of discrimination dont hold water
Sorry dude, there’s no way to prove peoples’ thoughts. Same way as there is no way to prove someone’s religion, except in that case it is definitely true that it is not a biological truth. And yet that’s still protected.

"Gays may choose to pursue that lifestyle or not, but they are what they are."

I didn’t mean in the military, I meant in life in general.

and you think it will not and cannot be integrated into the policies?

Integrating EEO the same as Blacks or Women open a whole new can of worms…

1.) Will they give spousal benefits

2.) will they recognize gay marriage

3.) will they ammend the UCMJ and strike the clauses about Sodomy

4.) you cant prove a person is gay just because they say so(and proof is everything)…..they may be saying it to garner special (EEO) treatment

Great Opinion

Im basing facts and questions that will be raised…not my personal opinion

what special treatment? I’m talking about equal to anyone else. You can’t prove someone’s Methodist just because they say so. But it’s still protected.

If gay marriage eventually gets recognized in 50 states, than they will have to recognize it. It’s not, and probably won’t be for awhile, so that point is moot. Spousal benefits also. Sodomy should have nothing to do with anything, considering that you’ll get in trouble for having sex with someone no matter what sex or orientation you are.

In general I just think the military is antiquated and needs an enema. no offense, because you seem to be part of it.

Once again comparing Gays to Religion dont work

That will be next

To tell you how antiquated the UCMJ is, you could get into trouble for having anal sex with your wife

No offense taken.
I am in the military, and I agree that they need to get out of the Conservative Christian mindset…BUT they wont, because the restrictions that I have stated are there to instill discipline and to follow a code of conduct.

Did you know that military members can be prosecuted for hiring hookers?

I can be prosecuted for getting a hooker too.

why is the UCMJ still around? someone should get on that. it’s the 21st century.

Hello, Clinton was the Commander in Chief and he admitted to sodomy on national television. What now?

only in this country

There is more to the UCMJ than just governing who you have sex with

And he was impeached by congress….

Obama may want to lift the ban on gays…but he still has to get it through congress….which I think is a bigger fight than people think

I never said it was military policy. But it happened. And it still (I would surmise) had the role of emasculating Japanese men and reinforced the status of the US soldiers as victors.

human nature and policy are often two very different things.

Hicks speaks the truth, son.

Thanks, dickhead.

Up yours douchebag so people can have an intelligent debate

Awesome knowledge, buddy

And Hicks is six feet under. He’s hilarious now, isn’t he?

Infinitely so.

What’s there to intelligently debate about allowing gays to serve in the military? Debate? Are you fucking kidding me? As if it’s even a legitimate question.

Shut the fuck up, and quit claiming the moral high ground.

Reading comprehension owns you…

Not once have I ever supported the military policy….Im purly stating facts

we’re talking about this country. and our military.

i understand that, i’m just talking about that particular part, but i’m sure a lot is outdated and should be reviewed.

Clinton was impeached, but he was still president. And he was impeached for a petty reason, as opposed to Bush who had nothing happen to him or Cheney, when they should’ve been impeached and have resigned for a lot larger reasons.

Obama will have to go through Congress, of course. Checks and balances. I guess I just have too much faith in our government. I probably shouldn’t.

On para 3, clinton betrayal is a matter of opinion about how petty it was….important thing is he was impeached not tried

On para 4, its not about faith, its about whats best for our military

Related posts:

1. Why do conservatives care so fucking deeply about gays? I'll never understand this. Who gives a fuck about gays? That's the way I look at it. Want to be...
2. Border Patrol Agent Held at Gunpoint by Mexican Military Agent Held at Gunpoint by Mexican Military 8-3-08 A Tucson Sector Border Patrol agent was held at gunpoint by the...
3. Should these illegals receive the backpay or even be allowed to use our court? Should these illegal alien have any claim to pay from a job, which more than likely they obtained through fraudulent...