UMD Libertarians

well, this will be a very interesting turn of events. The United States has been an advocate of Georgian independence, and Georgia has responded with pro-west strategic moves.

we have troops there now, and would love to set up bases there along with other nations.

so, what does the US do? send troops? get out? mediate talks?

will the russians listen? will the georgians listen? does the usa have any credibility left after saying fuck you to the world in 03?
They’re shooting down Russian planes. They’re about to get their asses handed to them, and probably re-absorbed by the Russians.

Putin seems pretty serious about taking this one all the way.
im a lil skurred bush will remember something about a monroe doctrine he skimmed over in history class….and try to apply it here.

what does the president of germany have to do with this?

He gets involved whenever there’s tension on the Iraq-Pakistan-Czechoslovakia border.
apparently the Georgian president has called upon Washington for help.

this is going to get VERY dicey.

oh shit i thought this was just some minor border skirmish. looks like this is shaping up to be something big…

What’s that?! Did someone need liberating?!

FUCK YEAH.

LOL thats good ol America…no wonder were broke.
Im not sure what we can do. I dont think a military response is a realistic option. certainly not a desirable one.

should we get involved, you might see 200 dollar oil before sept. 1.

RP would be ashamed.
this is about the South Ossetia
a region that has declared its independence awhile ago

Oil’s actually dropping pretty significantly today despite this news. Weird.

its gonna rocket over the next week if this conflict escalates even slightly. the way the oil speculators work, there can be an exploded supernova somewhere 4 trillion light years away used as justification for increased prices

right. but i think if the us gets involved, russia responds with some strategic geopolitical moves which would cause a dollar sell off world-wide, or a jump in oil prices.

what if russia decides to stop exporting oil if the usa backs georgia?

they can do it, they have nationalized the oil companies…

Did I use your tax dollars to fund Georgia? No
Is Georgia fighting for secessionindependence? Yes

Ron Paul approves

secession or independence? you don’t know?

Georgia has already seceeded and gain their independence from russia back in the early 90’s.

This isn’t about Georgia, its about South Ossetia

South Ossetia is fighting for independence from Georgia. South Ossetia supports Russia and welcomes the Russian troops. Whereas the rest of Georgia is against Russia coming in to South Ossetia.
Did Georgia side with us in Iraq?
Did they send troops?

If they did then I think we should stand next to them and help them.
If they didn’t, if they joined the rest of the world in standing against us, if they couldn’t be bothered to help us out then I say we get the fuck out of there and let happen what will happen.

Maybe France or Germany can help them.

Georgia did send a contingent of troops to Iraq. The U.S. is siding with Georgia in this conflict.
I hope the Russians use a nuclear weapon, i want to see a mushroom cloud with modern HDTV cameras

excellent question

i’d say no

Then we should help them.
By all means, if they did us a favor we owe them one.

But I am done with this ‘everytime something wrong goes on in the world everyone looks at the US and asks, ‘What are you doing to help?’ shit.

Fuck em. I look at the world as those that supported us and those that didn’t.

The dollar has actually been blitzing through the other currencies this week. The euro/dollar cross has fallen more than 500 pips the past two days alone. It’s hitting lows it hasn’t seen since february. The dollar is really strong against pretty much every currency atm. The Dollar/yen is at a little over 110 as well.

I was guessing Russia wants to reverse that by using South Ossetia as an excuse to invade.
So whats Georgia’s military capabilities like? Are they gonna get owned by the end of the day? I’m surprised that dinky country even shot down two jets.

Every time I think I’ve seen everything on the internet….

The minute one of those goes off, you can count on many many more going off. maybe for half a second, you will be able to see one in real life. (better than HDTV)

they have US weapons but very small amounts

Fuck Canada!!!!!!!!!

Similar to the Russians… or at least what the Russians left there and the military factories they left there. Georgia doesn’t have the military might to really do anything to Russia.

But then again, this is over a pretty small region and specifically centered around the capital. Not sure that Georgia would need to have a ton of military support if the whole conflict stays local. If Russia starts incursions into Georgia proper, then they are fucked.
Georgians are gonna get obliterated….

The lines of Russian tanks I saw on the news rolling towards the border made it seem pretty clear that they’re going for the entire country.

Last news report i saw was all those tanks rolling through the Roki tunnel which connects North and South Ossetia.

Not sure if Russia will actually attack Georgia seeing as their troops in Ossetia were supposedly "Peace Keepers" to stop the violence in S. Ossetia. Russia said the tanks were to reinforce their peace keepers, but who knows.

the important pipeline in the region is already closed thanks to a pkk attack in turkey

they sent 1 of their 5 combat brigades

(needless to say, they just recalled them, but they were nearing the end of their deployment anyway)
yikes, i hope this gets resolved peacefully.
I think maybe the georgian president needs to sit down and have serious talks with putin, about a strategy for peace.

/barack

I think we should invade and occupy Kazachstan immediately.

/Bush
What really bothers me is the ignorance of the general public about the issue.

I have heard claims as far fetched as "RUSSIA INVADED GEORGIA!!!!one", as an explanation to what started the conflict.

"Hundreds of civilians were reported dead in the worst outbreak of hostilities since the province won de facto independence in a war against Georgia that ended in 1992. Witnesses said the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali was devastated." ( Associated Press)

Georgia bombed the South Ossetian capital, where a huge population of Russian citizens resides (over 70k, from some articles i read). Georgia also bombed civilian targets in the city. Russia responds by massing troops and air strikes against Georgia’s air bases. Georgia reported 3 soldiers dead, South Ossetian civilian casualties have been reported to be over 1,400.

"geopolitical experts note that on the surface level, the Russians are backing the separatists of S. Ossetia and neighboring Abkhazia as payback for the strengthening of American influence in tiny Georgia and its 4.5 million inhabitants. However, more immediately, the conflict has been sparked by the race for control over the pipelines carrying oil and gas out of the Caspian region." Taken from another article.

Russia is heavily interested in stability in the region, sure it’s for it’s own purposes, but in the end, what’s the difference? Not like U.S. went into Iraq to protect Iraqies.

Don’t be too hasty with making judgments about this.

I’m not trying to argue with you, but you missed a pretty important factor in Georgia going in. Allegedly, Russian peace keeping troops were siding with the "rebel" forces in the skirmishes along the border. Dunno if that is true, but the assertion has been reported for quite some time.

This also gives Russia a great opportunity for Russia to put the fear of god in Georgia for requesting NATO membership.

I wasn’t really trying to be devil’s advocate, to be honest, it does sound that way however. This whole thing is a shitty situation. I really hope the US does not get involved in this. Perhaps US, Russia and Georgia, along with other NATO countries can work out a peacekeeping mission to cease fire and gain some control over the area, without destroying Russia-US politics.

Fixed

From what I have read this is the real thing going on.

I know I am fantasizing. I mean, I can give you two reasons why we CANNOT help here - Iraq and Afghanistan.

But wouldn’t it be great if we moved in, held up the Russkies and said, ‘We aint going anywhere till they are part of the UN, now moooove out.’.

Yeah right.

I stand by what I said though. It is all fantasy. They are on there own. Fuck the planet.

What you propose would be next to impossible. I will explain why using the map below.

South Ossetia, as you can see, is directly south of Russia. Which means if we moved in, Russia could move its entire military by ground in after us.
I’m not really into sports and all there is on TV is the olympics

This has barely been mentioned

Maybe if a good war gets going we might get some good TV.. a couple cool explosions and shots of planes etc.. awesome
i am all for blowing shit up But… i dont think russia is a good target… perhaps africa…
Georgia is taking a big risk.

And tbh i think they’ve made the wrong decision.

If Russia was really serious about taking back parts of Georgia no one would be able to stop them.
does Georgia have its own oil? i know a pipeline go through it but i don’t think Georgia has its own oil
I tell you what I simply love Obamas quote on the subject

Ohh … my bad. I thought they actually had some of their own. Guess it’ll just be a vengeance smackdown 17 years in the making.

Kind of like how Lincoln illegally prevented the southern states from legally seceding from the nation. I am glad he did it, and many will argue that it was the right thing to do. Can you imagine how the US would be today if they simply allowed those states to secede and be their own nation?

The question is what would happen to Georgia, if Georgia allowed that state to secede?

They wouldn’t get manhandled by the Russians…

good point…

They had the same mentality as the 1992 Iraqi Shiites, except they have more infrastructure, weapon stock, training and their opponent is gargantuan
you guys are so quick to blame Russia…you do realize Georgia is the one who is the aggressor here? You do realize Russian forces are only entering the area to prevent further slaughter of Russian civilians? The whole thing started with Georgians bombing a civilian target, which was retaliated by Russians bombing military targets

It’s hard to seperate the facts from the propaganda at this point, I’d be more patient with my conclusions

You realize there is more to this than you just stated right?

Fine, to make it simple, basically its the Russian version of Texas.

Texas was part of Mexico
South Ossetia is part of Georgia

Texas was mostly Americans
South Ossetia is mostly Russian

Texas voted to join United States
South Ossetia voted to join Russia

Sure there are some differences, Georgia helped hide Chechen rebels, and I don’t believe Mexico attempted to ethnically cleanse Texas after it declared to join USA

I wasn’t aware of Ossetia asking to join Russia. I know they were seeking stronger ties with Russia, but not that they wanted to be part of Russia.

Other than that, there is also the part where Ossetia and Georgia have been having border skirmishes for a while. Russia moved troops into "keep the peace". After Georgia requested NATO membership, Russia moved more troops into Ossetia to "keep the peace" and allegedly have been backing Ossetia rebel troops in the border skirmishes. Not to mention the US still considers Ossetia part of Georgia (not that that actually matters much).

There is actually a hell of a lot more than that too… that you seemed to gloss over with your "Russia is just trying to protect Ossetia civilians from being slaughtered by Georgia" explanation.

I have heard that many were wanting to join Russia though. But nonetheless Russia invaded Georgia because they sent "peace keepers" into Georgia territory.

Go to other news sites (even BBC) and see their version of events. You will soon realize that Georgia is the aggressor that’s violating the sovereignty of an independent region (South Ossetia) that existed since the breakup of the Soviet Union. Russia is merely sending in their forces into this independent region to protect its citizens (who are as many as 70,000). Russia is NOT invading Georgia. Georgia has been shelling innocent civilians in South Ossetia for the past few weeks that resulted in many deaths of Russian peacekeepers and South Ossetians.

You honestly need to do some reading on this. Both Georgia and S. Ossetia have accused each other of shelling their opposing villages and civilians. Georgia isn’t innocent, but you have a fucking ridiculous view of what Russia is doing in S. Ossetia. Russia was supposed to have troops there as unbiased peace keepers. I’m not sure if you can have more of an adversarial peace keeping unit than one that threatens your country for requesting NATO membership. That isn’t to say Russia is to blame, all three sides have been doing stupid shit. But your view is just straight up retarded and not back at all by the history of the conflict or current events.

Edit:

Above i wrote the US considers S. Ossetia part of Georgia. That was wrong. The UN, EU, etc. still consider S. Ossetia part of Georgia.

In 2001, the video game industry released Tom Clancy’s Ghost Recon. This game took place in 2008. The setting is Georgia. The plot is this: A new Russian leadership forms that supports pro-Russian rebels in Georgia. This leads to conflicts between the Georgian government and the pro-Russian rebels. How wrong was Tom Clancy? How wrong could he be?

Tom Clancy for PRESIDENT!!!

I find him to be very intelligent and prophetic myself. I think this is really a fight over who will control the entire oil pipeline in the Caucasus.
Since the US wants to intervene, I have a feeling that something awful is going to happen

I hope you are wrong. This most likely was planned, but looked very random and took many people by surprise.
i love it. help america, we’re oppressed!

in the same breath, gtfo usa!

Secretary of State at the least. Put him in charge of the Ministry of Peace.

i lol’d

in the same breath?
when did the georgians said anything of that sort?
us fights a proxy war against russian through US trained and equipped Georgian troops while the media diverts attention to john edward’s penis

Ministry of peace… what are you some sort of dirty hippy?

Ministry of peace my ass.
Let me tell you about peace. Russia knows of peace. Russia knows that you send enough tanks, drop enough bombs and you got peace.

Peace through superior firepower.

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