UMD Libertarians

medical advances are hurting us son.
people need to die
People are FAT FUCKING SLOBS.

</end>
Doctors are charging way to much and are in bed with the pharmacuetical companies

You are a doctor, figure something out.

this + insurance

i can go to a walk in clinic without insurance and pay 80 bucks for a check up. if i use my insurance, they bill the insurance company 520 bucks

)

Yay. A person who understands.

My wife’s company is coming out with a heart valve replacement that is NON-SURGICAL. No more open heart surgery to replace a heart valve. Another way to prevent people from dying. So now, by their company estimates, 100,000+ Americans per year who otherwise could NOT survive open heart surgery due to other medical issues (high blood pressure, cholesterol, diabetes, etc) can prolong their lives by replacing senile heart valves.

So, people in their 80s/90s can live ANOTHER 10 years….. the whole time requiring TONS of $$$ to keep treating their other medical conditions.

its more depressing when you see the other side of the coin. the only one who wins in this entire process is the insurance company

Physician salaries are a small percentage of overall healthcare expenditures.
the problem is employer supplied medical insurance

i for one welcome our socialized medicine overlords

So how exactly does this nonsurgical valve replacement work?
Insurance hands down.

I pay $320/month for insurance through my company. But it’s on a health savings account, so I have to pay $3,000 before the insurance will even touch anything. My wife is on Effexor for anxiety which is $250/month which isn’t covered by insurance.

insert it rectally and you have to squeeze it up into place. like reverse shitting. into your heart

Hypothetically…….. you come to my office for knee pain.

1) You tell me, "I have no insurance".
- I will tell you I will see you for $100 and give you my best opinion and let you know what further testing will be required and how much that will cost.

2) You have insurance.
- I will take your co-pay. Then I will bill your insurance for a level 3 or 4 consult. We will bill your insurance 3 times what we actually want to collect because we have pre-negotiated rates with the insurance companies anyways. In agreeing to become providers with the insurance companies, we agree to take pre-negotiated rates. But if you don’t bill higher, they will just lower their negotiated reimbursements.

TRUTH. Number one cause of cancer too
Being that I work in geriatrics…I sometimes wish my patients would pass
Sad but true, I see 13 people in one day not beneficial to my patients

He’s just trolling.

Watch the video……

my mind can’t even comprehend the stupidity of this statement

I’m on my phone so I’ll have to watch later. Thanks though.
One of the biggest problems in medicine is the misuse of resources for those patients who have little hope of survival.

Let me give an example so you understand from where I am coming.

If you have an 85 year old lady with advanced dementia who lives in a nursing home you aren’t really helping that patient when they get unresponsive by doing a CT of their head, an MRI of their head, a lumbar puncture, ICU care and pressors. Putting them on the ventilator for their aspiration pneumonia isn’t helping. Putting a PEG tube in for long term feeding isn’t helping. Nor is consulting a nephrologist for possible dialysis when the above results in kidney failure helpful.

We do this all the time as a nation when the care is futile and it wastes tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars per patient. We just can’t afford to keep doing this.
This country is all upside down. By 2020, we will be spending 60-70% of our GDP on social security, Medicare, Medicaid. We are using the majority of our "wealth" on the elderly, while cutting funding for children’s healthcare, education, infrastructure.

The retirement age has to stay at 65, because honestly most people past that age cannot work due to medical problems. But medical technology can keep a retiree alive for at least another 20 years.

We are one of the most unhealthy countries in the world. But it’s NOT for a lack of medical technology and ability. We are a gluttonous group. 65% of American adults are obese. We have all kinds of medical issues from being overweight, and these are EXPENSIVE to treat.

We keep the terminally ill and the demented alive WAY longer than they need to be. At tremendous financial burden and for what end? What is the true quality of life?

And when we DO fail in keeping these people alive, we face malpractice lawsuits and scrutiny from the public.
I plan on doing my part by dying by the age of 60 doing something cool.

It will likely involve at least fire and explosions.
aren’t you that fag doctor bragging about how much you make? fuck you
You know it’s true when two physicians basically make the same post at 9:55…. bringing up the same problems.
At the same time, though, Americans have some of the shortest life spans of the developed world. I would actually argue that the biggest problem is a lack of PRIMARY prevention. Other countries are living longer than us and spending a fraction of the cost.

I make $50,500 / year. Want to see a pay stub?

Our life span is AMAZING considering how fat our population is.
We have the most reactive health care system in the world, and thats why we spend so much money making amazing breakthrough surgical techniques.

I agree 100%. We are using our technology, which is VERY expensive, to help make up for our horrible health.
It’s interesting, but there are MANY studies which have shown that the key to longevity is calorie restriction diets and remaining VERY VERY thin and consuming the baseline required.

IIRC it was linked to lower levels of IGF-1
I was somewhat upset when Medicare denied coverage of a prescription handgun as a durable medical equipment. Would have been great if the elderly who have no quality of life could choose to get a prescription 9mm and /themselves.

lies
Can we just start leaving Nembutal out where old patients can easily access it?

Or take it a step further and label it as prune juice or something.

Ah, the old reliable high-velocity transcortical lead therapy.

I get a fatty pay raise in July though. $55,000!!! I’ll be ballin’ I tell you…… BALLIN’!

still in residency?
2010…… that was supposed to be a GREAT year for the elderly to die. 0% ESTATE TAX! Patients coming in…. saying, "You know what doc? Let’s stop trying to prolong this. I’m going to die anyways. Let me die sometime in 2010". But NOPE…… our fearless new leader Comrade Obama has vowed to lock in the estate tax as one of his first actions in office.

Majority of the ppl that vote are elderly, right? Assume those elected would protect those that helped get them that seat.

I will start a fellowship in July.

I see that you’ve spent thousands on college for four years, thousands on med school for four years and spent many more years of training after that. Why in the world do you think you should make a good living? Anything more than $50K should be sent to Obama to help the disadvantaged.

I am $750,000 in the hole compared to my high school friends who chose to pursue careers outside of medicine.

18-22 - scratch. We were all in college

22-26 - They started at $40k/year and moved up to $80k/year. They made about $250k over 4 years. I paid $50k / year for med school = $200k

At 26 - $450,000 IN THE HOLE

26-30 - I am in internship and residency. AVERAGED $42k / year for 4 years. My buddies are averaging $90k / year.
Me - $170,000
Them - $360,000
In the hole another $190,000

At 30, total in the hole - $640,000

31-32 - I will make $55,000. My buddies are making about $110,000. Another $55,000 in the hole.

At 32 - TOTAL IN THE HOLE

ABOUT $700,000!!!!!!!!!! Now, I have almost NOTHING in retirement funds….. NOTHING collecting interest. It’ll take YEARS to make up that deficit. FUCKING YEARS!

Yet, the first place people want to cut healthcare expenditures…… physician salaries. Shoot me now.

You’re a rich doctor, therefore i’mna sue you.
BTW, my wife has a 4 year bachelors in public relations. We are the same age. She is smart and capable, but I am WAY beyond her in terms in overall academic ability. I am OVER $1 million in the hole compared to her at our current age of 29. Her BONUS this year is probably more than my entire take home salary.

What people don’t realize is that physician malpractice insurance is generally these 3/1/1 plans. Beyond $3 million, it’s coming out of the doctor’s pockets. One bad lawsuit, and you’re ruined.
I would think with how the population is increasing, getting fatter, older, and more worthless that medical care is going to need to be rationed to younger patients by necessity sometime soon.

This is how it is in the UK right? They don’t give transplants to those over 50 and shit?

Healthcare rationing is a HUGE ethical dilemma. We can all say we support it, but how many would feel the same when it is your own life or the life of our mother, father, sibling, spouse?

fat slobs don’t even qualify for health insurance, or so I’ve heard.

I think we are going to have our hand forced by the baby boomers retiring and the complete inability to sustain this level of spending.
SCIronMike, kind of an obscure question but what kind of costs do you see relating to uninsured emergencies/illegal immigrant health care?

The most recent figures I’ve seen for California are $10 billion yearly healthcare expenditures for the uninsured. Of that total, about $1.8 billion was spent on illegal immigrants.

Something certainly is going to have to happen. There just are no good solutions and the politicians we have are spineless cowards who will not want to make the hard decisions.

When Obama does his healthcare proposal the costs will completely collapse the system. I think they are completely unprepared for the massive increase in healthcare utilization. You saw a hint of what is to come with the Hawaiian foray into government supported childcare.

It collapsed of course.
Probably assholes like OSUHandelobraes who shovel off their health care costs onto the hospitals and get fake ID’s to illicit further medical expenses.

That’s not the problem… the problem is that THIS is what our age distribution will look like in 2030. (Black portion is developed countries)

Maybe but your compadres did a fucking amazing job fixing my hernia. 6 weeks after the surgery and I was able to lift, do 100 crunches and 100 incline sit-ups with absolutely, 100% zero pain.

That certainly puts additional strain on the system.

I’m assuming you linked a chart but it’s not showing for me.

Withholding healthcare to illegals is another HUGE ethical dilemma. I think the key is to prevent them from coming over and deporting them when you find them. Once they are already here though, you really can’t deny them treatment. It would be a moral issue as well as a public health issue.
I think I could be convinced to support an universal healthcare system that was a multi-tiered system and that booted people out of the system for smoking, drug abuse, morbid obesity and other preventable health problems.

Incorrect.

The correct answer is the inclusion of infertility to health care benefits. The medical cost ratio would be in a much better place without it and it has no direct impact on overall health, not to mention the fact that it directly impacts population growth.

/thread

In.
image hosted for people who can’t see it

Pre-existing conditions are bullshit.

My mom’s insurance won’t cover my asthma, and because my brother went to a psychiatrist about seven years ago, anything related to that will not be covered.

Coool

I’m not kidding.

You’re very wrong then. The majority of childbirth and population growth in this country is in the Hispanic communities.. particularly the under insured groups.

That’s why you never let your insurance lapse.

.

Well the population growth is just icing on the cake, not a majority of my point by any means. The mere fact that infertility is a covered HEALTH benefit is ridiculous unless it happens to be a procedure that directly affects the health of the patient.

maybe it should be covered, maybe it should not. However, no matter how you look at it, it is a relatively minute expense in the overall health system.

That is also an incorrect statement.
I couldn’t agree more on the old people thing. I do medical transcription for cardiology and the number of tests and procedures they are doing on 90 year olds is insane. Fuck, the list of medications alone is outrageous and as I’m typing them up I can’t even imagine these people remembering to take these 10-20 different pills per day.

It absolutely is correct. In our current system, about 50% of all health care expenditures go to treatment in the LAST YEAR OF LIFE. The remainder is spread out. Almost no insurance companies cover 100% of infertility treatments and government plans certainly do not.

What about the mental health of the patient ?

That is certainly arguable.
more people should start smoking

that way they’ll die of lung cancer when they’re 70 instead of being demented at 80 and living until 100, amirite?

All she did was change jobs.
I’ve tried to champion this idea in the past.

What happened to dying with dignity? Do you really need a quad bypass after you’ve already passed your life expectancy?

Let’s bring back the brompton cocktail.

blame Christians

I’m not trying to question your sources or experience, but what direct exposure do you have to medical billing? If I recall correctly you are in the medical field (doctor?). The point is infertility is a non-health related expense that has been lumped into healthcare and helped drive up MCR. Insurance companies would be reluctant to drop it as a covered benefit only because of fallout in the public eye as well as with plan sponsors (employers).
we should have an age limit for insurance and hospital stays

after 75 good riddance you get no insurance and you can go stay at a hospice

Actually, yes. Recent studies have shown that the obese and smokers on average incur lower total health care costs over the course of their lives.

The most expensive? People who smoke for a while and quit. Like me, lol.

Lucky for the system I can’t afford health insurance…

You can’t let your insurance lapse between jobs. If your insurance lapses, every condition you had before can become a pre-existing condition. That is why you pay COBRA until you start your new job and get health benefits again.
Our compassion is a huge liability. We really shouldn’t cover people’s children when they bring known retarded babies to term. You decide to birth a tard baby, you cover the costs of it.

hahaha I’m so fucked

Hope my pilonidal cyst never comes back, and my thoracic outlet syndrome never acts up again.

If you quit today, I’d doubt you’d have medical problems as a result when you’re 50+.

I hate to bring up the same point twice in a thread…… but REALLY….. we need the FDA and Medicare to approve the GIMP GUN!

Go on…

9mm of healthcare cost saving fury.

There are tons of anti anxiety pills out there, why not switch her to one that has a generic available? My g/f takes citalopram and it’s $10/mo and it did wonders for her anxiety.

Single shot 9mm. All you need to do is paint it purple and just leave them around nursing homes.

I agree if you mean avoiding $$$$$ sugury or procedures. But refusing to give basic medical attention or straight up killing them is not a road you want to go on. The Netherlands has it set up where the doctor can basically decide to kill you if he feels your life isn’t worth living.

And it’s not just old people, it’s infants too.

noice

Call me cold-hearted, but I kind of agree with you on this point.

I also think old people should be kind of like dogs… When they get old and can barely move on their own, require constant care, need lots of expensive procedures to extent their shitty quality of life an extra year… just put them down. I see so many old patients with dementia and all sorts of fucked up problems and their families just keep them alive for god knows what reason… The main issue here is there needs to be a some sort of checklist to help determine what should be done based on several variables. How often you’re lucid, how much family you have, cost/benefits, etc.

I agree with this. Why prolong the inevitable?

THEY’LL GET BETTER SOON

jesus cries when you murder old people
I got a quick ? for you.

How many lbs would you deduct when you weigh someone who is weighed w/ sneakers, jeans, and a light dress shirt?
BTW, I am on vacation this week. Whenever I am on vacation, I sit at home, lift weights, exercise, read medical journals, and ponder issues of medical ethics.

I’ll ship him some kleenex.

You’re the reason medical care is exponentially more expensive. Please take up smoking and blowing horses and eating ’till you can’t walk properly.

The reason medical care is so expensive lies at the hands of medicare and the insurance companies who follow the government’s lead.

"You charge X for this procedure? That’s too much. We’ll pay you 40% of X."
"Now I don’t make enough money to cover my fixed costs. This year I will be charging 2x for this service."
"Stop scamming us! Now we’re paying fixed prices of $Z per patient, and we might not even reimburse you for procedures you perform to treat the patient. And if we do, you can’t charge the patient for it either."
"Cool, now I will have to see 4x as many patients per day to make any money. Each patient will get 10 minutes of my time and I will be loathe to perform even basic diagnostic tests."

Results:
Patients: "Wahhhhhh doctors are too impersonal these days."
Doctors: "We’re paralyzed because if we misdiagnose you in the ten minutes we have to spend with you we get sued out of business."
The uninsured: "Holy fuck I have to pay full price or the doctors go to jail for ‘defrauding’ the government."

EVERYONE LOSES
that’s a very rough description using numbers completely pulled out of my ass but the concept holds true lol

lawyers always win, son

I don’t think the majority of physicians would be opposed to socialized health care if they were assured of a fair salary.

And there’s the problem: lawmakers will never want to give enough, we’ll end up with dick-swinging between specialists, it’ll be a clusterfuck lol

A physician pay scale needs to be established. It needs to start with the primary care docs - the family practice, internal medicine, pediatrics. Those guys have the shortest residencies (only 3 years) and currently get paid the least. One would argue that a specialist with additional years of training should be paid more. So, after the base salary for a general practitioner is established, then the rest of the pay scale can be established.

This is how it is done at the Veterans hospitals. The MAX salary for a Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation physician (my base specialty, but I’ll have fellowship training in pain management) is $200,000. A pain management physician is one grade scale up from that.

Insurance companies will never, EVER release the stranglehold they have on the healthcare system in this country. Too much money to be made.

Shut your mouth you red commie bastard!

They can and will be forced out……. someday, as they’re really just middle men.

I like the idealized version of an HMO. Shame we’ll probably never see one in our lifetimes. One facility, all possible care providers, you buy membership just like a gym and use it when you need it, all employees get contractually agreed upon salaries, they profit by selling enough memberships to make sure they’re always running at reasonable capacity.

What you’re describing is Kaiser Permanente, which is an AMAZING HMO system here in CA. Their costs are well contained and medical care tends to be quite good. Yet members still often complain about every little facet of the system.

Well I’ll be damned.

Maybe they should expand to the south lol. More fat people and smokers but that just means it’d be higher initial costs and way lower end-of-life costs. Hell, that’d help them budget.
Biggest problem with the US Healthcare?

People expect handouts. They have fucked up priorities. They spend money on a big screen TV and cell phones for the kids but they can’t afford to spend that same amount of money on health insurance.
I agree on the old people thing. But honestly, how many of those old dying patients are there on their own free will? Many of them are probably being guardianed by their families, right? I’m sure a lot of patients would simply want to end their lives rather than live out their days connected to an IV and struggling to live.

There are a few types of old people, some of them are productive, some of them aren’t anymore. There really should be an available suicide option for those who aren’t.

oh, that would be awesome. of course, poor people would bitch when they needed healthcare that they couldn’t afford it. a lack of an ER would have the proles in rebellion!

Big problem, but not nearly the biggest problem.

Well the next problem boils down to families who lack an understanding of their outcome even with treatment. I work med-surg here downtown and I see it on a daily basis. You have someone with multiple strokes, dementia, brain mets, you know name, and their family says keep them a full code and do everything you can to prolong their life.

Some people laugh at the thought of hospice, but it’s because they don’t understand it, or lack the education to understand. Sure, there’s times when people are just blockheads, but that’s not what I usually see.
i can kind of understand 90 year olds getting unnecessary surgeries if they’re still mentally sharp. but why the fuck would anyone want to keep some drooling fucking mess alive when it can’t even remember it’s fucking name or who you are?

Ignorance

It’s really sad when you work with the family to help them understand that you are only prolonging suffering but they just have this blank look and want to keep everything going. Even after multiple docs come through you just can’t get anywhere with some people.

how the fuck did you go from $200k at 22-26 (med school) to $450k by 26? and what’s with the ‘another $160k’ and $640k total at 30? couldn’t you defer your loans during residency?
I came here to see Lawsuits and was very disappointed but then again, I only read the first page.

health care + for profit = iffy priorities

is this the one where they replace the aortic valve through a catheter/stent? The hospital associated with my university has done about 60 of those, they say it’s showing a lot of promise.

There’s a reason a lot of people who don’t come from a well-off background don’t go into medicine and it’s the loans. Sure the payments are deferred but the interest is not. I know a lot of docs paying only the interest and living somewhere dirt cheap until they make better money so they don’t get cornholed as bad.

i’ve talked to a lot of residents and med students and they said you could always defer your loans up until last july i think it was? but even now they have this loan repayment shit based on a percentage of your income. they defer your loans and only make you pay like 15% of your total income on the loans i believe it is?

i’m planning on going to medical school and i shouldn’t be more than like $225k in debt after it’s all done and said. $25k for undergrad, and $50k/year * 4 years of med school (living expenses included). i have no idea how the fuck he’s almost a million dollars in the hole.
people don’t realize that health care is, like gold,a commodity

How does insurance work for physicians working in hospitals? Is it still each his own? IIRC, up here you’re basically protected by the hospital and if anyone wants to sue they have to go up against the hospital’s legal team.

literally denying treatment or charging them a surplus?

I can’t see legislature being pushed to deny treatment to these groups of people. I agree that they should shoulder a larger responsibility moneywise though.

Read it more carefully. I’m stating what my costs are, and then what my total opportunity cost is compared to friends.

It WILL get FDA approval and it will be the preferred treatment in the future.

You SPEND $200,000 for 4 years of med school, but it is impossible to hold a job and make $$$ while in med school. Meanwhile, if you HAD NOT gone to med school and had gotten a job, you could easily be making a solid income….. at least $60,000 / year average for those 4 years. So, your overall opportunity cost factors into this.

What about people with low income and who are therefore on medicare/medicaid. If they eventually manage to work their way up and go for a private insurance plan, what can they do about it?

I’d imagine it’s cheaper than open heart surgery, no?

I get what you mean though, what with people living much longer and everything.

It depends on whether you are hospital employed. Most physicians are NOT hospital employed and carry their own insurance. When a patient sues though, they sue EVERYONE.

You can’t take compassion out of health care . The ethical dilemmas simply cannot be ignored.

I think people who by choice put themselves at more health risk need to be required to pay a premium.

oh, oops i thought you meant you were nearly 1 million in the whole. i was like, god damn!

If you quality for Medicare before retirement age, you are MAJORLY disabled and you will never work again. This isn’t really even a consideration.

Making it’s different between both countries, I’ll have to verify. Didn’t know most docs weren’t hospital employed though.

The risks of getting sued for malpractice up here are minimal compared to the US and I’d be interested in knowing why

1 million in the hole compared to friends. I often compare myself to my wife. By the end of my fellowship, I will probably be $1.2 million behind her.

Isn’t there a system for low income households though? Sorry, I’m not very well versed in the american healthcare system

Americans are litigious like crazy.

Depends how much he smoked.

That is state Medicaid and other types of medically indigent programs.

Me too

Why do I have a strange feeling I’ll be like that a few years from now. I’m more inclined towards understanding the healthcare system and how to fix it though.
Actually, at this point I still owe about $100,000 or so on my med school loans. Luckily my parents helped me out quite a bit, and I didn’t defer any loans (we have been paying monthly because my wife has a healthy income).

How much do you consider to be a fair salary? The average specialist’s salary in Ontario is 350,000$.

yeah, i understand what you’re saying now, but it’s not like you’ll always lag behind. you can pay off your student loans in a couple years if you live like a resident once you’re an attending. after your loans are paid off, you can catch up with your buddies opportunity cost in a few years. plus they’re a fucking office drone or post office worker what have you…you’re a doctor that saves lives!

or at least that’s my justification for wanting to go through with this.

No way, dude. They want to see Jesus. Blame people who think that they always deserve the best. Besides, much of the time, it’s the family that wants everything done, not the patient.

Read it and cry your fucking eyes out -

If I could get $350,000, I would be very pleased. If I could get $450,000, I would be ecstatic.

and people wonder why their physicians claim operating costs are on the rise. and reimbursement are not exactly sky high

haha, no.

I can agree with that.

fuck you, 50,000$ is plenty

So what happens when you manage to move up in the payscale and want to switch to private healthcare? Do you get denied if you have a previous condition?

shit, I’d be absolutely ecstatic with $350K. I know an ortho intern who’s already got a job offer for something like $500K.

I’m not expecting much more than $200K as an ER doc or a general surgeon…

That, I’m not sure of. I just don’t know. i’ve never seen a person getting Medicaid who has become employed again

Yeah it’s a nice salary. I’m considering internal medicine right now and last year the average salary in Qc (where physicians make the least money in all of Canada) was 240,000$. Doesn’t seem too bad.

My wife’s a nurse and makes plenty more than that. She works less than any doctor I know too.

And we live in an apartment and drive 9 and 10 year old used cars. Yeah, $50K is baller.

I think I should do a bit of research on malpractice because I’d really be interested in knowing why the difference is night and day. My cousin’s a resident and I had called him once asking about malpractice lawsuits and such and he basically answered "it’s a non-issue, you’re very well protected". Just seems so different from all the horror stories I hear south of the border.

Current mean salary for general surgery is $339,362. For ER it is $260,790. That is per the 2008 MGMA salary survey which is the industry standard.

Because (a. people will sue for anything down here (b. the courts will give it to them.

John Ritter’s gold-digging bitch of a wife tried to get $65 million from the cardiologist and radiologist who were involved with Ritter’s care before he died, because that’s how much he would’ve made in the rest of his career. Like that has fuck all to do with the cardiologist.

I thought about it because that’s basically my family’s experience. Obviously we didn’t have to worry about healthcare, but I’d be curious to know what would happen to someone in the same situation living in the States. It’d suck if they were in a position where they could move off of medicaid and yet because of preexisting conditions they either have to stay on it because they can’t get private insurance, or end up uninsured.

MGMA? what’s that? and doesn’t that vary regionally? what do they say for FP and IM?

In the U.S., the mean internal medicine salary is $201,603 if the physician does inpatient AND outpatient. Outpatient only, the mean is $174,735.

Yeah 200K is the salary of a gen surg here too. I think the differences only start to appear when you get really high in the pay scales (doubt there’s many orthos making 500K up here)

Why so greedy?

i’ve heard the salaries are a little higher than in real life.

MGMA = Medical Group Management Association. You’ll find when you’re looking for jobs that the employers always tend to base their reimbursement schedules on "MGMA guidelines".

IM is listed above.

FP = $187,953.

story on this? And I’m guessing she didn’t get it? That’s absolutely ridiculous…

I dunno, somehow I feel like with all my hard work, I should probably make more money than my sister-in-law, who makes YouTube videos for WeightWatches by working 20-30 hours a week. She pulls well into the six figures.

She lost, thank God, but many others have won such lawsuits. They didn’t have anywhere near that much insurance coverage. They would have had to quit their jobs and move to Mexico.

Very few internists do primary care up here, and it’s a 5 year residency. That’s probably why they make more.

Family docs are the ones getting raped, 140k

As a physician, even if you "win" that case, ultimately you lose. You are buried in legal costs and your reputation is fucked.

I couldn’t keep up the sarcasm because your comment made me . It’s crazy sometimes, and ridiculous that people actually want to cut into our salaries.

They should have waited for an xray when the symptoms pointed towards a fucking MI?

I’m sorry guys, as much as I’d love to experience the states (hoping I can do a fellowship in NY), I think the fear of getting sued out of all my earnings would keep me away

they already collected 14 million too
the problem is keeping people alive that should be dead.

what does phys salary has to do with what he charges?

what does how much money you make have to do with how much money you charge?

Stories like this make me queasy. I’m going to be working at Cedars-Sinai starting July, and god knows there’s no shortage of entertainment industry people there as patients. Make one mistake and your career could be over.

Fuck, I’m going to go for a jog and clear my mind. Will resume to this discussion in a couple hours.

phys keeps small small percent of what he charges…overhead eats shitloads of the charge
Do you guys have something similar to the "Apology Act". It’s something that’s been taken up in a few provinces around here where if a physician apologizes to a patient for a mistake, that apology can’t be used against him in court. Apparently it’s been proven to reduce the number of lawsuits and improve patient/doctor relations.

Typical office overhead is 50 to 60%. Need to pay for office rent, electricity, liability insurance, phones, computers, electronic medical record, receptionist, nurse, office manager, MEDICAL EQUIPMENT (HUGE expense), medications, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

If you’re a primary care doc and you’re getting paid about $120 for a new visit or $40 for a follow-up, you know you need to see those patients FAST.
PS: thanks for the thread, I needed an excuse to avoid studying pharmacology

I love looking at threads like this, cause I could just imagine my parents reading this and saying "he’s fucking right" the entire time. Both are doc’s, and I know they have voiced similar opinions concerning "the last years".

" American and Australian evidence on doctors’ apologies show improved patient satisfaction, a decrease in repeat errors and reduced cost and frequency of malpractice settlements. In many cases, patients and families just wanted an apology, an admission of responsibility if it was appropriate, and a reasonable offer of compensation.

After implementing an apology policy in 2002, University of Michigan hospitals cut their annual legal costs from $3 million to $1 million and saw 50% fewer lawsuits and threats to sue. The Canadian Medical Protective Association (CMPA) says it’s too soon to say whether Canadian apology laws have had a similar effect. "

It’s probably not perfect, but I’m sure that with a bit of tweaking it would make practicing actual medicine a lot simpler, instead of having to worry about defensive medicine.
So what you’re saying is that DOCTORS are the problem since they’re helping people live longer.

Totally makes sense bro!!

And here I thought this whole time that doctors were trying to HELP us survive longer.

obvious troll is obvious
at doctors saying they’re not paid enough. SC, you may be in the hole 1.2 million before you start making your 300-350k salary, but you’ll quickly outpace her in 5 years and the other 20 are basically you grossly outrunning her in wealth.

i’m not saying doctors are poor but the average doc doesn’t earn $350k.

They’re making enough, but to say they’re overpaid and that’s where cuts should be done is laughable.

how durable are the valves that can be folded like that? what if it embolizes?

this doctor probably will

but actually you’re right. I suppose the doctors who get into the high paying specialties would have probably been capable of getting into law or investment banking and earning far more money.
Glad I never had any desire to take the medicine route

this is OT, we’re all ballers, you aint impressin nobody son

It’s a well-reimbursed profession, but you’re pointing at the outliers. Average salary for the entire profession is probably $170,000, and many docs work 60-100 hour weeks.

I have a classmate who did 2 years of dentistry and couldn’t stand it

I guess it goes both ways then

He says dentistry was too hands on for him. He’s a thinker, not a doer . Funnily, his average skyrocketed now that he doesn’t have to worry about clinical labs and stuff
i completely agree, and my proposed solution is to allow tax credits for only two children per family, and impose tax liability for each child after the first two.

This plan works two fold:

1.) it discourages families from having more than two children, thus hedging the population
2.) it generates new tax revenue from families who choose to have more than two children, tax revenue which can be put towards the medicare these old folks suck dry

my father actually threatened to disown me if I went into medicine.

yep you’re right. OT makes me have a skewed perception because only the baller doctors like Blansten and SC bother posting their salary/expected salary. every other doctor keeps quiet. except for Dubu who I know probably brings in half a mil the bastard

This brings you into a new field of debate though: whether having children is a right or a privilege. Don’t really feel like arguing for either, just saying that it’d get messy and would most likely lead nowhere.
i also find it laughably hypocritical that those who argue against discriminating against fat people, smokers and type 2 diabetics in medical services provided. yet they are implicitly condoning the practice that will saddle the next generation with an insurmountable budgetary burden which will harm far more people who are unwilling victims of those who could have prevented their diseases but chose not to and cost the system hundreds of thousands for lifelong care.
I’m a final year med student in the NHS (public healthcare system) in the UK

Really I can’t complain too much. Sure there’s some beurocracy but the whole idea of PAYING for treatment is so far some our minds it’s crazy. Patients are never denied or restricted treatment based on money. Patients are assessed by NEED.. if an 80 yr old needs a serious operation, he’ll get it as long as he can survive it. Like I said, I can’t complain

doesnt matter, families would be free to have as many children as they want, they just need to incur some of the monetary burden they place on society.

most people aren’t pragmatic and although your idea is a good one the majority would not support it because the majority is retarded and think Ricardo and Mariana should have as many US born babies as they want.

specialists make a lot better money with a lot less bullshit to put up with. that’s why so few new grads go into primary care.

No, you just deny 1 in 4 cancer patients the newest cancer drugs.

I don’t blame you guys, but you don’t go to the bitter end the way we do.

what about when you rely on primarily on government support to raise those children, or even have more children in order to receive more government support?

but don’t you need to be in the 90th percentile or above to get into a relatively lucrative specialty? and that percentile is among medical students…

i’m sick of playing social worker every time i have to discharge a crack addict patient.

only 4.5 more months til the wonderful world of anesthesia

Nope. SCIronMike’s specialty - PM&R - is one of the easier ones to get into. Anesthesia is about middle of the road.

i find it hard to believe they’d consider it cost effective when perioperative mortality in someone 80+ is nearly 40%

Im starting to really lean heavily towards Otolaryngology now. Seems like my kind of specialty

anesthesia has some of the biggest swings in competitiveness of any specialty - in the mid 90s they were practically bribing people to go into it. now most programs have USMLE cutoffs for applicants (varying depending on the program, anywhere from 215-235)

yea ive heard this before. Unfortunately my desired specialty has a higher cutoff
im just going to make sure I do extremely well on step 1, and probably do some research next year

so what percentile do you need to get into a specialty? im assuming higher than 60 percentile to balance out the mean salary you mentioned since all the GPs are making 170k while the pros make 500-600k.

Good luck man.

as a 3rd year? good luck with that

best bet it to just do well on step 1 and get to know the folks in your department well

how do you determine if treating ear, nose and throat diseases is "your type of specialty"? it sounds like people just delude themselves into thinking the highest paying specialties are "their types of specialty". I mean, how fun can radiology or anesthesiology really be anyway?

many specialties are mostly limited to clinic, inpatient services, or the OR. ENT, on the other hand, has a nice mix of all 3.

Well lets see. My father is an ENT doc, and ive observed tons of his head and neck cancer surgeries that were nothing less than amazing to me. I have shadowed 4 or 5 ENT docs at my medical school, and their clinics were awesome. Im the president of the surgery interest group, so I network with tons of these guys, and they are all laid back and love their jobs (for the most part). Im also the vice president of the ENT interest group, which allows me a great amount of exposure to the field. To be honest I would consider it even if it were one of the lowest paying fields. You learn pretty fast that going into what you enjoy is much more imp than the salary when you are around doctors who hate their lives almost daily

exactly. I love the procedures, and I love the clinic.

wasn’t salary a LOT lower in the 90s than what it was now? i’ve read about fresh out of residency offers for $300k+ in anesthesia. it’s no surprise that it’s becoming more and more competitive with pay like that.

i wonder how much a doctor in mexico city charges for an average procedure

illegal immigration door might swing both ways

I wouldn’t say anesthesia is middle of road… more like around 75+%???

middle of the road is about where specialties and "primary care" split?

This thread is kinda depressing…

Seems to me like an entirely different topic

I know what you’re getting at: if you’re relying on others to foot the bill, then certain things that may be considered a right seem more like a priviledge. Problem is, you can’t stop people from conceiving. You can’t make people forcefully abort. And once the child is born, you can’t deny that child its basic needs. At least not in the society we currently live in.

Sure it’s not great, and it has its costs, but no system is perfect.

depressing? worst you come out with is 170k. shoot for 75 percentile to get 300k

most people can only dream of such salaries. debt would be paid off over like 4-5 years anyway.

ORL is one of the most competitive specialties around, fucking thing sucks

It’ll be interesting to see which specialty I end up shooting for in a few years

no, there are MANY primary care docs not even breaking 6 figures while still working 60 hours/week. and yes, they still have to pay their loans and malpractice on top of that.

it’s not as glamorous as people think.

docs work way too hard for their money

I’m gonna be a superstar doc like house

or is that not how things work?

i’ve been told by many residents that you can generally match into any specialty you want outside of the REALLY competitive ones (derm, ophthalmology, etc). but then again, who knows. i heard there were a lot more applicants to anesthestia residencies this year than in previous years.

and primary care docs not breaking 6 figures? how is that even possible? they must be doing something REALLY wrong to be earning that kind of money.

uh yeah at least 170k son!

there are many not even making 6 figures, working increasing hours because of increasing financial pressure placed on them because of our messed up healthcare system; the system is preventing some doctors from providing good care… on top of the time and resources invested going through medical school and training…

our healthcare system is fawk’ed

and it has become painfully clear to me that I don’t really have enough self discipline to force myself to study as much as i should… not sure how i’ll do on step 1… it’ll kinda suck if i screw myself into a field that i don’t like because i closed too much doors with a shitty step 1 score

primary care docs have a shit ton of overhead compared to the paltry reimbursements they receive - consider they have to pay rent, hire staff (office manager, secretary, nurses, techs, medical records staff, sanitation), buy medical equipment, pay utilities, pay malpractice… and on top of that they get buried in more paperwork than just about any subspecialist. now that they’re requiring a move to EMR in 2014 they are all gonna get deep dicked by insane costs of purchasing and maintaining full electronic medical records systems… i don’t know why anyone would ever go into primary care

just start early so you are reviewing for a month beforehand rather than relearning everything

for my 1st year and 1st half of 2nd year i pretty much just crammed for exams and i don’t think people really retain information for the long term that way… you think I can overcome this weak knowledge base in 5 months?

EDIT: fawk, it’s been 5 hours since i got out of class and i haven’t even read or study a word… i’m fucking useless…

i did the same thing believe me, i wish i would have actually learned it better the 1st time around

how is that even possible?

And yet, even though I’m only 5 months in, I will most likely not bother following your advice. Oh well

I did 5 pages in 5 hours, impressive no?

eh, whatever. i did average on the step 1, got into the specialty of my choice at a decent program with a lot of cool folks, and had an awesome time in med school
you should accidentally kill your patients to balance things out

so i’m doomed?

i’ll gladly take this post # as my step 1 score though

I go out and fool around more now than before I got in AND I managed to get a higher GPA too

fuck I love this
since you guys are all medical students or above and i’m just some pre-med dumbass…do I need any extra-curriculars beyond volunteering and shadowing to get into medical school? all of these nerdy motherfuckers on the student doctor network forums have like 500 different fuck off clubs that they run into the ground, and that’s not my style. i work 15-20 hours a week during the school year so it’s not like i sit around playing with my dick all day…it’s just that i’d rather not join clubs that i don’t really give a fuck just so i can write it down on my med school app.

Volunteer, shadow, participate in research projects (it can be as simple as entering data into a computer, doesn’t matter), maintain a good GPA and impress them at the interviews. You’ll get in no prob

ya i plan on giving research a try for a semester. but with a 3.5+/30 MCAT, 75 hours volunteering, and like 25 hours shadowing, i should be ok for an osteopathic or lower ranking allopathic school, right?

what if you already have a degree with a mildly non-respectable GPA (3.0 for the masters degree) and no science background?

4.0 on a postbacc & world record MCATs? or is there another way?

if you’re working part time to support yourself you can play that up too. you should be able to get in to a decent allopathic program

i think a really helpful thing you can add is research… don’t think joining a shit load of group really help with anything. being active and committed to a few groups beats joining a shitload and not doing much

i’d probably respect people that works on top of everything too (i might be biased since i worked in undergrad too), i’d imagine the admission committee probably have similar thoughts on working a job?

get to know some professor better? i know my letters of lec are probably really bland since i never talk to any of my profs…

what’s your undergraduate gpa? according to this admissions committee lady that posts on sdn, they take your masters into consideration as an extra cirricular - it doesn’t affect your undergraduate gpa in any way.

3.2, 3.3ish. Couple Cs in there too unfortunately. I would need a postbacc though because I have almost no science background. I heard that the post-baccs you pretty much need to get strait As if you want to clean up a bad ugrad gpa, but I don’t know that mine is ‘bad’

i’m probably talking out of my ass, but i would do an an informal post bac program. if you do 45 credits worth of classes at a 4.0 you should be able to bump your GPA up to a 3.5.

Well you need a great MCAT score regardless. As for the rest, if I were in your position I’d look at the websites of whatever schools interest you and see if they have different criteria for people with an education above the undergrad level. What’s your background? Most schools require a letter of presentation, and you should use that as a way to make the case as to why you’re making the switch into medicine and make it as convincing as possible (throwing in something about your interest for family medicine always gets their juices flowing too). Obviously if you went on with your studies and improved your average, or geared it towards a more scientific field, it’d definitely help, but I understand not everyone has the years to spend on that.

Not everyone in med school needed a 3.8 to get in, but I’d be lying if I said you didn’t have some catching up to do. It’s probably doable, but you’d need a great MCAT and an impeccable letter of presentation.

Someone from the States could probably help you more though, since I don’t know if all med schools in your country are equally competitive. Up here getting in with anything below 3.5 or so is extremely difficult.

keep in mind that every adcom is different, and not all masters programs are equal. graduate work in public health or health policy will be viewed differently than counting flies for a year

You don’t NEED a scientific background. As long as you have the prereqs and a good explanation as to why you’re suddenly switching fields, it’s doable.

My background is in business, but I ended up taking about half my credits in statistics courses in anticipation of a PhD. I never ended up with published research because I realized early on that I didn’t care for it and enjoyed studying statistics more than I enjoyed using it. But I do have a fairly solid stats background (for a business major )

To be honest I never did pre-med because I knew that I was too lazy as an undergrad to risk hanging myself with tons of debt and not confident enough that I would be able to finish. But medicine has been something I’ve thought about for as long as I can remember.

it’s funny you mention family practice- this has been my area of interest. I thought that ad-coms were prone to laugh at people who mentioned it, shows how little I know about the process. The only other thing I could see myself doing is neurology but I honestly believe that is more of an intellectual activity for me to read about but not actually practice.

I couldn’t take the MCAT right now, as I did the bare minimum for sciences, so I would need the post bac no matter what. My main concern is that I’m really not likely to get a 4.0. I think a 3.7 is a safe bet, and I feel comfortable with it, but I don’t feel comfortable resting my hat on ‘perfect’. I have some volunteer/shadowing opportunities & could get good reccomenders.

I feel like my weak points are going to be the GPA and the Cs on my transcript, as well as not much in the way of work experience (2 years). I have stellar test scores & could probably get into a business PhD program somewhere, but I don’t know how well I’d do on a sciences test like the MCAT, so I don’t feel I can rely on that making up for the weak parts of my app.

I couldn’t take the MCAT right now. I havn’t taken chemistry since high school. I toyed with doing a self study but even if I ended up with a great score, wouldn’t my GPA get cut off by the software that schools use to screen?

This is exactly right. Bottom line is we dont actually collect the full amount billed.. not even close, a good portion is a write off. EOB’s can be confusing for patients..

some schools screen by gpa some don’t. i don’t think you can self study the pre-requisites. it depends on the school, but almost all of them require 1 year of chem/organic chem/bio/physics/calc.

DM and HTN leads to a shit load of problems…..

and DM and HTN are PREVENTABLE and easily treated with fucking exercise and diet

pretty sure DM has genetic components…

BP goes up as we age some genetic components as well…

it’s not like they won’t happen if you do or don’t do certain things

if residency is additional learning of practice

then fellowship is additional learning of reasearch

at least, in my field

it’s like training beyond residency…a sub specialization. like you can do a residency in internal medicine then either work as a doctor in internal medicine (called an attending physician), or you can do a fellowship which lasts anywhere from 1-3 years depending on which one you’re doing. using internal medicine for example you can do a fellowship in nephrology, cardiology, endocrinology, geriatrics, immunology, infectious disease, etc.

ba-ba-baaallllin

Just as durable as the traditional ones. When it fails, you can just insert another one inside the existing one. They have gone 6+ layers before without problems.

It has gotten A LOT more competitive the past 3 years. The kids we just matched last year were all 235 to 260 step 1 scores. This year will be even tougher.

what about severely obese patients with dilated nonischemic cardiomyopathy with a 5 cm mitral annulus causing severe regurgitation and heart failure to the tune of 15%?

My brother is an OTO-HNS PGY2. He loves it.

Damn, maybe PM&R is only competitive here because it’s So Cal! Geez.

if that much is wrong, you should just off yourself.

at least she’s not a crack addict like the other 3 people i admitted last night
All of Med Crew needs to read this… my buddy just told me about this…..

NO MORE BALANCE BILLING FOR ER VISITS!

NOOOOO Idea.

LOL, Cali is more step towards total ER collapse. Actually, scratch the LOL that’s really sad.

at least the addicts are entertaining and if you accidentally gave them a gas embolism, nobody thinks twice about a crackhead having a heart attack.
then again, nobody would probably think twice about a 400lbs man having a heart attack either.

well ask your little lady because i have a patient with that
thanks for all your help with the gf’s knee

she’s doing better

thanks man

Well we all will get old one day if we’re lucky. I just don’t want to go out slowly and painfully.

I’ll have a massive MI and die by 50.

They’re still in FDA trials. The only indication is aortic valve.

It’s so messed up. MORE money taken away from doctors and put into the insurance company hands.

Now they have further incentive to lower reimbursement to the ER. Their insured certainly won’t be complaining to them since they are off the hook.

aren’t there any pro-physician lobbyists?

The AMA is a piece of shit organization.

sure some are more prone to getting it if you have a family history

but a hell of a lot of the complications that come from DM and HTN can be reduced if pt’s were compliant with medications and did their part (diet exercise) instead of taking med after med treating every new complication

I was under the impression that we were talking about an aortic valve?
i feel like everyone in the world should read this thread.

"Health maintenance organizations and patient advocates hailed the decision as an important protection against gouging by hospitals and physicians."

haha really? why don’t you just come take my car and fuck my wife?

sure… but it seems like you’re saying DM and HTN can be completely eliminated if someone do or don’t do something in your original post

It’s also an interest of goals. One of the smartest guys in the class ahead of me wants to do family practice. He could get a much more competitive specialty, but he is most interested in the LEAST competitive specialty. I could probably do something more competitive than gen surg or emergency - possibly - but that’s what I’m interested in. Dermatology is regarded as the ultimate cushy specialty, but fuck that. I didn’t go to med school just for that.

A lot more fun than being an accountant or a tax attorney, but somehow, people willingly go into those fields.

Worst? Dude, we already said that $170,000 is the AVERAGE. Half of the doctors are making less than that.

I did pretty good on Step 1, thankfully not quite like ACURA TL-S though holy shit on that one.

what’s his score? 270+?

u think 5 months is enough to overcome a weak knowledge based because of cramming for exams(bad for long term retention?) the first 1 and a half year?

roflno

nah, not in the 270s, but not far from. Your key will be USMLE World and a really dedicated month of studying for boards. I was a machine for about 4 weeks - probably 60 hours a week. I’ve got a classmate who was studying almost 100 hours a week for a month, and he got a 262 or so. He was a big motivating factor for me - he was always there when I got there (he started at 5:30am or so), and he often stayed after I left around 6pm.

yeah, but i need a mitral

there are two ms3s here in louisville who broke 270 one of them wants to do anesthesia

I almost scored the average for plastic surgery, so I’m pretty sure my board scores won’t be my limiting factor. Too bad I didn’t do any research…

My brother’s fiance was in the mid 260s, and she matched anesthesia.

but really anything 250+ is

good thing my school is getting us usmle world and kaplan qbank

our dean said some guy broke into the 280s a couples year back at my school… holy fucking shit how is that possible?
for all the OT doctors/med students, how many tries does it normally take you to do a spinal tap?
mike posted that article about the patient whose family wouldnt let him die. In the last pgph they talk about putting him on 3 vasopressors and soon his fingers will rot off…

can pressors really reduce peripheral blood flow enough for fingers/toes to die? Obviously thats an extreme example…but is that a concern with just leaving a pt with some type of shock on a pressor for an extended period of time?

and yet you’ve posted at least 4 cars that you own, a porsche, audi, bmw, and something else

depends on the patient

definitely - i’ve seen it 4 times already

gotta reward yourself with something when you’re working 80 hours/week

don’t bitch about not having money saved up when you own 3 brand new luxury cars and a sports car.
Shit, after that many years of med school and residency you’re just now realizing that?

do some people die of heart failure first?

1.

Yes

My wife is in public relations. 4 year degree that she finished in 3. She makes over 3 times my salary.

if they’re sick enough to be on pressors long enough and at high enough doses to cause severe peripheral ischemia, they have a LOT more pressing issues to worry about

i’ve only heard of one person who regained their mental function after some of their digits fell off. all four i’ve seen personally either ended up dead or in a persistent vegetative state

You’ll miss the reasonable response to such an obvious thread, but you’ll sure pat your own underpaid, overly skilled ass on the back, won’t you?

we’ll see if you would say that after visiting san antonio

A lot of fatties? The only time that I’ve ever missed was a squirmy 6 month old kid. Kid wasn’t sick enough to be lethargic yet

LPs aren’t that difficult

it’s just tough when they have vertebral issues or you have to use a harpoon to get through a few inches of blubber

We did a study at OSU when I worked there, and I think that less than 95% of people that were coded in any way - shocked, given pressors/antiarrhythmics survived to home.

every done an ultrasound guided epidural? cause i have

Fucker is obsessed with his own ass and the money he makes.

Was it an ultrasound guided caudal? I wasn’t aware of any other approach with ultrasound.

i admitted a guy yesterday who coded back in february - he had an AICD placed afterwards.

he was taking a shit yesterday and the AICD started shocking him randomly, total of 7 times poor guy

Every medical thread you make is either a way to boast about your own ass, or bemoan the fact that docs don’t make what they used to with litigation fees, the government’s intervention, or whatever else you feel is taking away from your precious livelihood. Don’t try to deny it.

no, we broke out the ultrasound to just try to make out some landmarks before we started stabbing her with the touhe. had to get all macgyver on that shit

I was in charge the other night and one of our nurses shocked somebody with 10J and it worked. AICDs ftw.

There are no issues more important currently in medicine than funding and access. Physicians don’t have unions like nurses do to look after our welfare.

There are some very good methods for doing ultrasound guided caudal epidurals. I’ve done my fair share of blind epidurals. Never again. The LOR just isn’t reliable in a big patient.

You think my union would support me if the shit hits the fan? Hell no.

Look, this health care system is screwed, but don’t you think that there are more issues than both of our paychecks involved? What about the people that will soon find no way to access the system?

Our nurses here would walk out the door if their salaries got cut 10% every year for over a dozen years straight. Our medical director makes $127,000 / year. Our RNs make $108,000 to $113,000 / year.

This entire thread was started about problems with funding and access and available resources in the healthcare industry. NOT about healthcare worker salaries. You haven’t read the thread or you’d see that there has been quite a bit of discussion about how to get more people into the system.

brb buying stock

You’re too late If you had bought the stock in 2001, it would have been a very solid investment.

i figured

His wife makes very good money. I don’t know any other residents with any cars like his, boss.

because the businesses that hire these fields own business schools and the recruiters pitch a good story. 80k after 5 years doesn’t sound so bad, does it, especially since the degree is easy by comparison & you can get by slacking whereas in other fields you have to do some actual work besides cramming for exams.

But I saw on TV once, they shocked a guy and he jumped back up! It was in the James Bond movie!

People just don’t understand that if you code for a non-cardiac reason, then your long-term prognosis is horrific. If it’s just your heart, then you’ve got a better chance.

Nobody is ever going to lower a nurse’s salary (not that they should). A politician would be tarred and feathered for suggesting such a thing. Now, if they mention those rich doctors in their Mercedes who make too much money, that’s completely different.

Either way, this thread was about neither of those things.

heaven forbid they reap the benefits for tossing their youth away and saving lives
The biggest problem in healthcare is that I don’t know how to stop the 12,000 degree magma spewing from my asshole right now.

sugar mama ftmfw
No, the biggest problem is that we’re trying to do both government-sponsored healthcare and market healthcare at the same time.

You can’t do both. It’s one or the other.

people have been conditioned to expect a fallback plan from an outside source. This is multi generational.

If the government stops providing care for the poor, there will be very little care for them. People are no longer used to giving charity, nor are people used to making sacrifices in order to pay for absolute necessities. I could sleep at night, but I have very little in the way of social consience. I don’t think most people would feel the same. That’s why there’s such a push for UHC. Every time a poor person gets sick it’s a calamity.
One of our nurses:

Campus IRVINE
Employee Name T*****, D**** A.
Title NURSE, CLINICAL IV
Gross Pay $113,142.30
Base Pay $76,061.67
Overtime Pay $28,933.34
Extra Pay $8,147.29

Our nurse manager

Campus IRVINE
Employee Name BR******, G*** JR
Title ADMINISTRATIVE NURSE IV
Gross Pay $106,749.34
Base Pay $106,749.34
Overtime Pay $0.00
Extra Pay $0.00

One of our newer nurses with only a couple years experience

Campus IRVINE
Employee Name C***, G****
Title NURSE, CLINICAL II
Gross Pay $73,197.60
Base Pay $64,085.64
Overtime Pay $4,729.52
Extra Pay $4,382.44

Our medical director (head physician)

Campus IRVINE
Employee Name E*****, M******
Title HS ASSOC CLIN PROF-MEDCOMP-A
Gross Pay $127,887.75
Base Pay $91,043.55
Overtime Pay $0.00
Extra Pay $36,844.20

2nd in charge physician

Campus IRVINE
Employee Name M****, C******
Title HS ASSOC CLIN PROFESSOR-FY
Gross Pay $34,140.78
Base Pay $34,140.78
Overtime Pay $0.00
Extra Pay $0.00

My department chairman… 28 years as chair. Longest tenured chairman in the hospital

Campus IRVINE
Employee Name Y***, J*****
Title PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A
Gross Pay $204,725.07
Base Pay $145,118.99
Overtime Pay $0.00
Extra Pay $59,606.08

AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST…….. MY SALARY! Thank goodness for full government disclosure of UC employee salaries Hold on and let me go outside and brag to the bitches about how much I’m rolling these days.

Campus IRVINE
Employee Name H***, MICHAEL C
Title RESIDENT PHYS II-IX/NON-REP
Gross Pay $46,158.00
Base Pay $46,158.00
Overtime Pay $0.00
Extra Pay $0.00

That may be because it’s a dirty little secret how badly medicare/medicaid is FUCKING our HC system in the asshole, on the patient and physician sides.

If people really knew the kind of bullshit M/M causes throughout the healthcare system (insurance provider, consumer, and healthcare provider), they’d probably start to view it a bit differently. But no, anyone the "people" would listen to would be committing professional/social suicide by coming out against that program.

what about going to, say, South America & working in a private clinic there? I’m not saying you’ll be making 7 figures but don’t those places normally pay fairly well by local standards?

I know Eastern Europe has private clinics that supposedly newbie docs are making about 120k/yr at, which is about 10x the average salary. Would be equivalent to about 380k in the US fresh out of med school.
This is, by far, one of the most interesting reads I’ve seen on OT in a long time.

Is this you?

Please respond.

I haven’t had that much blood on my face since my trauma surgery rotation during my internship year!

Quoted for truth.
Mike Hunt???

you posted your full name once on your diploma, IIRC

That’s why private sector FTW
oh, those salaries are sad
SCIron, when you think just about cost/time that you’ve put in-do you ever wish you took another route? Not factoring in your passion for the job,etc..

people have been thoroughly convinced because most of them have never actually had to deal with medicare, or because they don’t want to take any responsibility for their own families. That’s why we have medicare in the first place- so that you can farm mom&dad off to a nursing home when they become too wrinkly to look at.

IMO the system is criminal. Medicare will discharge patients the minute you can’t show improvement on the stupid check the box forms.
I know what the problem is

there’s too many forks in the garbage disposal

I really do love practicing medicine and taking care of patients. Believe it or not, the most appreciative patients are generally the cash paying / insured ones. The uninsured county patients generally have the "you’re giving me substandard care" and "you’re not doing enough for me" attitudes. I just am hopeful that in the future physician salaries start to stabilize.

Yea working for the hospital FTL
I will do whatever it takes to go private. Patients are more grateful, better compensation, work as long as you want or leave the office early. My dad pretty much has it made
but of course he worked his ass off at Hopkins for like 6 years of Oto residency.

Otolaryngology residency is pretty brutal for my brother. They work his ass off.
The tightest thing he did was a fellowship in facial reconstructive/plastics. Its pretty amazing. He does a few face lifts/nosejobs here and there for fun He also of course uses it for the major cancer surgeries he does.

yea its no joke. I know what im getting myself into (or trying to get myself into )

My brother…….

High school valedictorian…. 1560 SAT… he gave the grad speech.

College valedictorian at USC… 43 MCAT….. he gave the grad speech

Med school UC San Francisco….. 258 Step 1…… top of his class

Oto-HNS resident at UCSF. Kid is brilliant.

I understand what you mean I worked over the summer at a clinic that sees an average of 70 patients a day between 2 dentists…in one of the top 5 most segregated cities in the US. We used to get maybe 3 patients that would say thank you. Takes all the fun and pride of your job away sometimes

and hes going into Oto. Fucking awesome man

Yeah, the kid practically lived in the hospital until he was 8. 95 ENT operations.. trach, PEG. A lot of suffering. Severed facial nerve at the stylomastoid foramen. All that motivated him to become the best Oto doc he can possibly become. He works his ass off.

Buy her $100 worth of weed a month instead.

That would probably work better. LOL!
Another problem with healthcare….. this perceived shortage of physicians. In reality, there is NOT a shortage of physicians. There are too many specialists and too many physicians in metropolitan areas and suburbs. There is a shortage of primary care physicians and physicians in rural areas.

The knee jerk reaction is to increase med school enrollment, but so far all that has caused is MORE specialists and MORE competition in the popular to live areas.

So, I get e-mails like this every single fucking day.. just got this one.

Hi Dr. H***,

Please let us know if you would like to be considered for an interview (by replying with your CV to this e-mail).

Palmer, AK (Near Anchorage):

New: PM&R Opportunity/Alaska - Outdoor Adventures Galore!
Set between two majestic ranges of towering, snowcapped mountains, creates a gateway to Alaska and the Mat-Su Valley. Palmer is located 42 miles northeast of Anchorage on the Glenn Highway. The primary service area is over 73,000.
Medical Center is a 40 bed JCAHO accredited hospital and is the sole community provider. Hospital is a recognized leader in healthcare and seeks:
BE/BC Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation physician needed to establish a solo private practice.Ideally need a PMR with Pain Management - image Guide Interventional skills and musculoskeletal focus. This is an ideal opportunity to establish an orthopedic musculoskeletal practice. A busy six member orthopedic group wants to bring this specialty into their practice so this fortunate candidate will join a ready made practice in a perfect location.
This bustling Alaska community offers:
Glacier trekking
Hiking
Camping
Abundant wild life
Home of the Alaska State Fair
Amazing views - Flightseeing!
Lots more…..
Comprehensive recruitment package may include:
Cash collections guarantee
CME
Practice support
Marketing
Relocation
Potential medical education debt assistance
Potential commencement bonus
More….

your brother wins at life. great inspiration, med student crew sign in. shooting for cardiologist

what happened to you?

No kidding. Pay the least and expect the most.

OH NOES COMPETITION!

no offense man, but there are a lot of shitty docs and nurses out there still. the healthcare system needs some fucking competition.

I thought it looked like he had surgery done. What was it for?

Interestingly enough, the plastics resident I worked with on trauma (very smart guy!) had a repaired cleft lip.

edit - n/m, cystic hygroma

Same genetics, but more interested in cars, girls, electronics, beaches, restaurants, OT…………… Hey, my grades were not bad either bitch!
Funny, seems like other people have the same thought. Found this on - great blog.

There’s more to the article -

i learned more in this thread than in some classes ive taken

:thumbsup:

Put me on Hospice and DNR. Load me up with painkillers and let me die at home in peace. . .

Up here the shortage of primary care docs in rural areas has been so severe that some small communities started offering 150,000$ signup bonuses for people willing to work 5 years as a family physician there.

At my school, half of last year’s graduates entered a family medicine residency, so hopefully within a few years things will start to improve.

My in-laws live in a small town. They have to get a new PCP every 1 to 2 years because the doctors come and go so freqently.

I’d rather work as a family practitioner in a small town rather than a large city. people are more dependent on you. they need you. you can have a very personal effect on their lives and make a difference.

I couldn’t do it.
70% of healthcare costs are caused by poor lifestyle choices. thanks to fat fucks people like myself with medical conditions we didn’t bring upon ourselves suffer.

Yeah, in a small town they’ll stop your ass in the grocery store and complain about that expensive medicine you put them on. Or they’ll pull up in your driveway on your day off and walk right up to your door to tell you about a medical problem even though they absolutely know that you have another doctor covering you.

dude you are so severely underpaid. and i know this is stating the obvious

holy hell

and god help you if you go to a block party of any kind, every conversation you have will be medical in nature.

LOL none of that was made up. A friend of mine has all kinds of stories being a primary doc in the boonies.

I can remember taking calls for my parents at home when we were living in a small town and my dad was the only pediatrician within 50 miles. It’s probably why he switched to radiology, he’d rather be locked in a dark room than deal with children and their mothers.

43 and 258? that’s great and all, but he didn’t speak at his med school graduation

may want to edit that to remove your name, mike

Eh. People can figure out what my name is anyways based on the article posted about my brother.

you give OT way too much credit

My mom used to get calls all the time from patients. She would answer the phone and tell them that she didn’t accept calls on her home number and that she would be happy to see them but they needed to call the office. I can see how things like this are often a problem, but I think if you set boundaries and stick to them, people will learn, and they won’t think less of you for it.

That would work in a bigger town. In a small town people can’t fathom the concept of boundaries.

I grew up in a town of about 4,000, probably not quite that much.

I guess that’s not that small, but I think it would be tough living in a town of say, 500 people.

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